1 (edited by takadakeyo 2016-03-12 00:31:55)

Topic: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

Greetings,
So with LOTS of help from the soliforum community, I was able to upgrade my SD4 with the E3D lite6. After a few hiccups, its finally printing again, but very sloppy prints. I have been trying to fine tune it for a few days now with no sign of progress. I'm far from professional, so any help would be much appreciated.

So I just printed a 20mm box with ABS. My brim looks really good, just a bit bumpy see from the top view of the brim. But the thing I notice most is that my nozzle drags (scars as its called in the sticky trouble shoot thread) also when it stops to move to a new location, it keep extruding a bit.
I did calibrate how much it extrudes and is extruding 100mm when I hit 100mm in manual control. I also tried to play around 5degrees down because I read it might be too hot.

I also have gaps in the left corner on almost every layer, but Im guessing its from that extra extruded when it stops to move to the next location.

Those two are the main things I noticed just by watching it print. Idk if my settings might need adjusting or not. But here are my settings I used to print the box

The things I adjusted so far was:
Level the bed
adjust my Z stop
adjust the correct amount it being extruded (100mm test)
adjust extruder heat from 210 to 185 in increments of 5degrees 

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h460/TakaPhotoartistry/16-03-08-20-26-21-614_deco_zpspbn2v9t7.jpg

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h460/TakaPhotoartistry/settings1_zpsobowu9ap.jpg

http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h460/TakaPhotoartistry/settings2_zpstlhppchk.jpg

I have a pet bird and I think he will like it better if I print in PLA, but I want to print the fan duct and get all the other settings right before changing from ABS to PLA. And I read that PLA can sometimes be easier than ABS, as lifting is a bad issue I always had.

[edit]
Idk if it says but Im using a .4mm nozzle

2

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

Where to begin,,,,
Layer height set that to .2963 for first and all other layers.  Yep, that's a good place to start.
A calibration cube (not what you printed) is a single perimeter with no top.  The main thing you are using this for is to calibrate the proper extrusion.  So set your profile to print that same 20mm cube but tell it 1 perimeter with zero infill and no top layer.  You'll end up with a shell of what you have pictured above.  Then use a caliper and measure the wall thickness and use that information to adjust extrusion multiplier in your slice profile.  Do this until you get an actual single wall thickness of .48. That is what you have the extrusion width set at so it stands to reason they should be close to the same in reality.
It sounds as though you are not using z lift and that's a good thing but requires everything else to be near perfect to prevent the nozzle from dragging through the previous layer.  The other feature that isn't adjuster properly is retraction.  You'll want to play with this a little bit to find that sweet spot that avoids gaps or blobs on a layer change.
The biggest area of concern is your E: VREF clearly needs adjusting and will reduce or eliminate moire (diagonal pattern on the walls) when dialed in properly.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

3

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

wardjr wrote:

Where to begin,,,,
Layer height set that to .2963 for first and all other layers.  Yep, that's a good place to start.
A calibration cube (not what you printed) is a single perimeter with no top.  The main thing you are using this for is to calibrate the proper extrusion.  So set your profile to print that same 20mm cube but tell it 1 perimeter with zero infill and no top layer.  You'll end up with a shell of what you have pictured above.  Then use a caliper and measure the wall thickness and use that information to adjust extrusion multiplier in your slice profile.  Do this until you get an actual single wall thickness of .48. That is what you have the extrusion width set at so it stands to reason they should be close to the same in reality.
It sounds as though you are not using z lift and that's a good thing but requires everything else to be near perfect to prevent the nozzle from dragging through the previous layer.  The other feature that isn't adjuster properly is retraction.  You'll want to play with this a little bit to find that sweet spot that avoids gaps or blobs on a layer change.
The biggest area of concern is your E: VREF clearly needs adjusting and will reduce or eliminate moire (diagonal pattern on the walls) when dialed in properly.

Ohhh ok! I shall try print that and measure to see what it is to start. And ill do more research on the others too. One thing I found a lot when Googleing "moire" was Z wobble and a bad Z threaded rod. While mines doesnt look bent to my eyes, my bed does shake left and right a lot when my nozzle drags and hits that extra part when changing layers. Is that a part I will also have to change out? or should I just focus on what you said to calibrate (extrusion, retraction, and VREFs)?

4

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

definitely the things wardjr suggested.

a 0.4 layer height is much too large for a 0.4 nozzle - should be no more than 80% of nozzle diameter maximum...
and due to the fact that SD uses imperial threaded rods for Z axis movement, trying to use an even number for layer height doesn't work well - you end up with an odd layer every so often. the 0.2963 layer height works quite well.

a single wall calibration cube should look like this:

http://soliforum.com/i/?NsQaceL.jpg

in Slic3r's print settings:
perimeters: 1
solid layers - top: 0, bottom: 1 or 2
Infill: 0

have you measured the diameter of your filament in several places (straight off the spool) and entered the average? (cant tell from the screenshot - the tool tip is covering that part).

the extrusion multiplier should be set at 1 for the first calibration print.
after printing, measure the wall thickness, then average the dimensions.
formula for calculating the extrusion multiplier:
0.48 (desired dimension) / actual print dimension (average) = new extrusion multiplier (round to 2 or 3 decimal places)
enter the new multiplier, save settings, re-slice and re-print to verify.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

5

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

Ok! Back and set my layer height to 0.2963
Came out much nicer and was bouncing between 0.48 and 0.49

http://i.imgur.com/1ZgRFlW.jpg

So now I will look up what retraction is and how to set it along with doing some research on the VREFs.
My X still randomly losing steps just for a bit (luckily it happens while moving to center before printing) but I read that setting a high voltage or lowering the speed would help. I have been turning the nob on my X VREF quit a bit, I dont think its over heating but should I worry about speed at this point as well? or just one adjustment at a time? Hahaha trying to learn too much too fast has always been a problem of mine.

6

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

heartless wrote:

definitely the things wardjr suggested.

a 0.4 layer height is much too large for a 0.4 nozzle - should be no more than 80% of nozzle diameter maximum...
and due to the fact that SD uses imperial threaded rods for Z axis movement, trying to use an even number for layer height doesn't work well - you end up with an odd layer every so often. the 0.2963 layer height works quite well.

a single wall calibration cube should look like this:

http://soliforum.com/i/?NsQaceL.jpg

in Slic3r's print settings:
perimeters: 1
solid layers - top: 0, bottom: 1 or 2
Infill: 0

have you measured the diameter of your filament in several places (straight off the spool) and entered the average? (cant tell from the screenshot - the tool tip is covering that part).

the extrusion multiplier should be set at 1 for the first calibration print.
after printing, measure the wall thickness, then average the dimensions.
formula for calculating the extrusion multiplier:
0.48 (desired dimension) / actual print dimension (average) = new extrusion multiplier (round to 2 or 3 decimal places)
enter the new multiplier, save settings, re-slice and re-print to verify.

Whoa thats very interesting about the even numbered layer height! I had no idea. thanks for that info! And sorry about the blocked photo. My filament is 1.75 and measured at pretty close to that. I only buy Octave as I read many good things about it.

7

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

takadakeyo wrote:
heartless wrote:

definitely the things wardjr suggested.

a 0.4 layer height is much too large for a 0.4 nozzle - should be no more than 80% of nozzle diameter maximum...
and due to the fact that SD uses imperial threaded rods for Z axis movement, trying to use an even number for layer height doesn't work well - you end up with an odd layer every so often. the 0.2963 layer height works quite well.

a single wall calibration cube should look like this:

http://soliforum.com/i/?NsQaceL.jpg

in Slic3r's print settings:
perimeters: 1
solid layers - top: 0, bottom: 1 or 2
Infill: 0

have you measured the diameter of your filament in several places (straight off the spool) and entered the average? (cant tell from the screenshot - the tool tip is covering that part).

the extrusion multiplier should be set at 1 for the first calibration print.
after printing, measure the wall thickness, then average the dimensions.
formula for calculating the extrusion multiplier:
0.48 (desired dimension) / actual print dimension (average) = new extrusion multiplier (round to 2 or 3 decimal places)
enter the new multiplier, save settings, re-slice and re-print to verify.

Whoa thats very interesting about the even numbered layer height! I had no idea. thanks for that info! And sorry about the blocked photo. My filament is 1.75 and measured at pretty close to that. I only buy Octave as I read many good things about it.


The diameter measurement plays a very important part in the math and extrusion volume.. You really need that set right to assure a proper feed rate and volume. Ideally you want to measure several places along about a three foot section then average those measurements. The average is what you will put in your slicer.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
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Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

8

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

The diameter measurement plays a very important part in the math and extrusion volume.. You really need that set right to assure a proper feed rate and volume. Ideally you want to measure several places along about a three foot section then average those measurements. The average is what you will put in your slicer.

Roger! I shall measure and average that and change that now

9

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

Don't worry too much about your z rod.  If you can't see any wobble as it rotates then it's fine.  You can add a well nut to eliminate backlash if you want.http://soliforum.com/i/?SrQCp7H.jpg

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

10

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

wardjr wrote:

Don't worry too much about your z rod.  If you can't see any wobble as it rotates then it's fine.  You can add a well nut to eliminate backlash if you want.http://soliforum.com/i/?SrQCp7H.jpg

Ahhh ok I shall put that on the back burners and address that a bit later. I spent the last hour reading a few articles on retraction and will do the retraction cube test now and see how it goes! Then move on to looking up VREFs

11

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

I will take this moment to thank you for your willingness to research.  If you have problems or questions about fine tuning VREF let us know.  The basics are use your fingers and your ears and find that spot where the motor turns smoothly and sounds the best.  Don't get hung up on measuring the voltage as that only gets you close anyways.  You want to find that spot where the motors produces the most torque and then back it off just a hair.  You are just trying to eliminate the pulse which you will feel with the shaft between your thumb and finger as it turns.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

12

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

Ok so sadly I was not able to print the retraction cube test because my X motor is binding like crazy again. This time I cant even move it in manually. Even with my VREF set to the highest, it doesnt move. I loosened my belt and can move it with the motors off smoothly and easily.

One thing I just noticed is that my X belt is not level between the two pulleys and when I move my carriage by hand the belt on the pulley (motor side) moves up and down by about 1mm or 2. The pulley doesnt move but the belt does. So Possibly this is why i have so many binding problems?

I saw the solidoodle Y belt leveling video (I couldnt find one for the X belt) but I applied the same thing about loosening it and moving the carriage left to right a few times to let the pulley line up its self, and thats where I tightened the grub screw.

13

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

I hope you are referring to the grub screw on the motor pulley and not one on the idler pulley.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

14

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

wardjr wrote:

I hope you are referring to the grub screw on the motor pulley and not one on the idler pulley.

yes the one on the motor pulley. My idler pulley didnt come with a grub screw in it and I never put one in, because I read I didnt need it? idk haha

But here's a photo

http://i.imgur.com/LHmRjLm.jpg

You can see that my belt on the idler pulley side is higher. Could this be why I have constant binding problems?
I line up the belt straight, but as I move my X carriage left and right, one side will always move up and down. So Im guessing that one of the pulleys is just a hair at a angle? just a theory of course and not even sure if this tiny difference is why I get binding.

15

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

That won't hurt anything.  The question is when you move it by hand, does it move smoothly?

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

16

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

wardjr wrote:

That won't hurt anything.  The question is when you move it by hand, does it move smoothly?

Yes it moves smoothly and pretty easily, just as smooth as easy as moving my Y. and with the belts off it moves extremely easily and smooth. Much easier than stock, my stock use to need one hand holding my machine down when sliding or would move the whole printer. So its easy to move compared to that, but thats all I have to compare it with. haha

17

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

Maybe you need to post a video of the X axis as it skips. 
A fan on the board that cools the drivers and a heat sink on the motor or even a fan will help.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

18

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

wardjr wrote:

Maybe you need to post a video of the X axis as it skips. 
A fan on the board that cools the drivers and a heat sink on the motor or even a fan will help.

Ok so I noticed that it only binds in the back thirds of the print bed. When I move it close to the front of the print bed it moves smoothly and not so much noise. but as I move it back, it binds.

Maybe its a over heating problem then? Sometimes, but very rarely, it will move okay in the center, but only about 3 or 4 times then bind again and only moves when I move it closer to the front.

If I can get my printer working long enough, the fan attachment will be top priority for sure.

19

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

And there's no wires or anything getting bound up when it's near the back?
Then all I can guess is y carriages are so tight that the X rods are getting distorted from some strange pressure.  So how is the motion of X when it is near the back moving it by hand?
That or the wires or connections for the X motor have an issue when in that area.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

20

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

My thought would also be misaligned X rods. They can get pretty torqued up in there and out of shape if the holes are really tight. You could also have the belts off by a tooth or two, which is causing the X gantry to be out of square with the rest of the machine.

21

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

wardjr wrote:

And there's no wires or anything getting bound up when it's near the back?
Then all I can guess is y carriages are so tight that the X rods are getting distorted from some strange pressure.  So how is the motion of X when it is near the back moving it by hand?
That or the wires or connections for the X motor have an issue when in that area.

I doubled checked and there doesnt seem to be any thing getting hit, pulled or bound up while it moves back.
When I move it by hand in the back it feels like same as I move it by hand in front. Same amount of resistance and feel.

One thing I noticed when I removed my whole X extruder/carriages, there was wiggle between the two Y carriages. Like if I just moves one Y carriage it can move 1cm back and forth and the other wont move. When I noticed this, I didnt do this aggressively incase I would ruin the carriages, but just something I noticed. Is that normal or bad?


My thought would also be misaligned X rods. They can get pretty torqued up in there and out of shape if the holes are really tight. You could also have the belts off by a tooth or two, which is causing the X gantry to be out of square with the rest of the machine.

Is there a way to make sure that the belt's teeth arent off?

22

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

Ok so I may or may not have found a problem. Idk if its related to my X binding problem. But my left Y carriage (idler pulley side) is cracked. Which might cause this wobble I was talking about.
My carriage didnt come like that, and idk how long it was like that or what caused it. odd. but here is a vid of the wobble and crack.

http://i.imgur.com/2amMJHp.jpg

23

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

that could very well be the source of you binding problems.

check your Y idler blocks too - mine had cracked, creating all sorts of problems.

if you need assistance with printing replacements, just ask - or you could order some from http://www.printitindustries.com/collec … nted-parts wink

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

24

Re: (SD4)Very messy prints... Possibly my settings?

The placement of the crack suggests an X axis problem. I have never seen this before to be honest. I'm thinking too much belt tension and too many wraps of tape on the bearings.

Heartless does bring up a good point about the idler brackets, though. If one is slacking, the other side would be taking up the slack in performance. This may cause damage to the carriage in the rod ports. Since the top portion of Lawsy's design for the right carriage relies on correct tension (and my theory of bearing diameter pressure), it may develop a crack over time.

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