1 Topic by rpineau

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Topic: Z dimension issues

I got my Solidoodle 2 about a week ago and spent the whole weekend trying to print a small cube of 2x2x2 cm.
After "solving" the fact that print were not sticking to the bed I ran into a new problem.
The printed result with a fill of 0 in Slic3r is more 2.03 x 1.98 x 1.58 cm !!!!
In the slic3r config :
Filament tab :
   - filament diameter to 1.75mm
   - extrusion multiplier to 1

Printer Settings tab :
    - Nozzle diameter : 0.35 mm
   
I've attached the slic3r ini files for these setting to this post.

At this point I'm lost as from what I can tel my z-axis setting is fine (now) as the part stick to the bed.
Any help, directions, ... would be more than welcome.

Thank you
Rodolphe

Post's attachments

Solidoodle-2-filament.ini 407 b, 4 downloads since 2014-02-04 

Solidoodle-2-printer.ini 613 b, 2 downloads since 2014-02-04 

Solidoodle2-0.3mm-hollow.ini 1.71 kb, 3 downloads since 2014-02-04 

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2 Reply by pirvan

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Re: Z dimension issues

Your dimensions are off because your stepping values are off.  You need to calibrate your X & Y axis, although they appear to be close (20.3mm x 19.8mm).  If your vertical ("Z") only produced 15.8mm, then your Z stepping is way off.

Open up Repetier, then take a look at the Config tab, Firmware EEPROM Configuration.  AT the very top, you should see the Steps/mm values.  What value do you have for "Z".  For a standard, unmodified Solidoodle, that value should be 2268.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

3 Reply by rpineau (edited by rpineau 2014-02-04 03:46:47)

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Re: Z dimension issues

1st, thanks for your help.

I don't see that on Repetier Mac.
When I connect, int he printer menu -> EEPROM settings I get a blank dialog box.
I attached a few screenshot to show you what I see.

Here is the log when I connect :
  19:36:53 PM: Attempting to connect to printer
  19:36:53 PM: Connection opened
< 19:36:53 PM: FIRMWARE_NAME:Marlin V1; Sprinter/grbl mashup for Printrboard FIRMWARE_URL: <removed> PROTOCOL_VERSION:1.0 MACHINE_TYPE:Solidoodle_3 EXTRUDER_COUNT:1

but it's a solidoodle 2 (even though it says solidoodle 3).

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4 Reply by ronsii

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Re: Z dimension issues

Sometimes in RH the eeprom settings will not show up so it is best to use m codes to set the eeprom memory. Using Mcodes you can do the exact same thing if RH will not let you set the values.

M92 [axis][steps]

axis can be X,Y,Z,E E=extruder

steps=number of steps per mm

Example: M92 E102  ; sets the extruder axis to 102 steps per mm.

M500  ; saves settings to eeprom memory

M501  ; reads and shows settings in eeprom memory

5 Reply by pirvan

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Re: Z dimension issues

I see, you're using a Mac.  While I do have a Mac, I don't use it for 3D printing, so When I referenced the Repetier menu options I was referencing the PC version.

There's another way to do this though: In the GCode window enter the following command M501 and hit Send.  The Solidoodle controller should echo back the firmware settings, which should look something like this:

19:18:09.574 : FIRMWARE_NAME:Marlin V1; Solidoodle mashup FIRMWARE_URL:http://www.mendel-parts.com PROTOCOL_VERSION:1.0 MACHINE_TYPE:Mendel EXTRUDER_COUNT:1
19:18:09.574 : echo:Active Extruder: 0
19:18:12.019 : echo:Steps per unit:
19:18:12.027 : echo:  M92 X88.00 Y90.00 Z800.00 E105.00
19:18:12.027 : echo:Maximum feedrates (mm/s):
19:18:12.028 : echo:  M203 X500.00 Y500.00 Z5.00 E45.00
19:18:12.028 : echo:Maximum Acceleration (mm/s2):
19:18:12.029 : echo:  M201 X9000 Y9000 Z100 E10000
19:18:12.029 : echo:Acceleration: S=acceleration, T=retract acceleration
19:18:12.029 : echo:  M204 S3000.00 T3000.00
19:18:12.029 : echo:Advanced variables: S=Min feedrate (mm/s), T=Min travel feedrate (mm/s), B=minimum segment time (ms), X=maximum XY jerk (mm/s),  Z=maximum Z jerk (mm/s),  E=maximum E jerk (mm/s)
19:18:12.030 : echo:  M205 S0.00 T0.00 B20000 X20.00 Z0.40 E5.00
19:18:12.030 : echo:Home offset (mm):
19:18:12.030 : echo:  M206 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
19:18:12.030 : echo:PID settings:
19:18:12.032 : echo:   M301 P10.00 I0.10 D120.00

Yours will be a bit different than mine if you have a newer machine with the Printrboard controller, but the settings should be more or less the same.  Look for the lines highlighted in red above.  My "Z" is set to 800 because I have a metric ball screw, but yours should read 2268.

If it's not, then you can change it by typing M92 E2268, then try a print.  If it fixes your problem, you can simply write the EEPROM settings by issuing the M500 command.  That saves the current running settings back to the EEPROM

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

6 Reply by rpineau

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Re: Z dimension issues

Thanks for the help.
Here is what I got with the M501 command :

< 23:32:32 PM: echo:Using Default settings:
  23:32:32 PM: Printjob finished at Feb 3, 2014, 23:32:32 PM PST
  23:32:32 PM: Printing time: 00s
  23:32:32 PM: lines send: 2
< 23:32:32 PM: echo:Steps per unit:
< 23:32:32 PM: echo:  M92 X88.00 Y88.00 Z2268.00 E138.00
< 23:32:32 PM: echo:Maximum feedrates (mm/s):
< 23:32:32 PM: echo:  M203 X500.00 Y500.00 Z5.00 E45.00
< 23:32:32 PM: echo:Maximum Acceleration (mm/s2):
< 23:32:32 PM: echo:  M201 X1200 Y1200 Z100 E10000
< 23:32:32 PM: echo:Acceleration: S=acceleration, T=retract acceleration
< 23:32:32 PM: echo:  M204 S1000.00 T1000.00
< 23:32:32 PM: echo:Advanced variables: S=Min feedrate (mm/s), T=Min travel feedrate (mm/s), B=minimum segment time (ms), X=maximum xY jerk (mm/s),  Z=maximum Z jerk (mm/s)
< 23:32:32 PM: echo:  M205 S0.00 T0.00 B20000 X20.00 Z0.40 E5.00
< 23:32:32 PM: echo:Home offset (mm):
< 23:32:32 PM: echo:  M206 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
< 23:32:32 PM: echo:PID settings:
< 23:32:32 PM: echo:   M301 P15.44 I0.51 D116.62


So it looks like the value is correct.

7 Reply by pirvan

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Re: Z dimension issues

Hmmm...  it almost sounds like you're missing layers. 

Go back to your model, and slice it again.  Use .1mm.  If your object is 20mm high, you should end up with approximately 200 layers (maybe less, depending on how thick your first layer is).  If you use .3mm layers then you should have about 65-66 layers.

Make sure you watch the final layers of your print.  Is it still printing, does it stop prematurely, did it stop extruding for the last few layers?? 

Just some of the things I'd look for.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

8 Reply by rpineau

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Re: Z dimension issues

When I sliced it with the 3mm profile it slices 67 layers.
I'll retry with the 1mm profile to make sure it makes 200 layers (it's 7:40am so I don't have time to try now).

Thanks again for your help
Rodolphe

9 Reply by rpineau

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Re: Z dimension issues

So i confirm that it slices 67 layer for the 3mm profile.
But the end result is 1.5cm tall.
Also I followed the wiki tutorial that talk about the flow rate and my wall are so not .42mm thick... more like 1.15mm in average.
The side of the cube are also not smooth and clearly show that the layer are not exactly on top of each other and someway squished (see attached photos).
To make sure the parameters were somewhat correct in Slic3r, I installed Repetier-Host in a windows XP VM in Virtualbox because the version of Repetier-Host Mac from solidoodle doesn't have any of the profile the Windows version has.
I copied all the values from there for the 3mm profile, including the filament params for the solidoole 6x6 and also the printer params ... still not helping as you can see.
So there is definitelly an issue on the z-axis where it's not moving as it should.
Repetier-Host Mac says it moves and endup at z = 20.15 but the print is only 15.xx
So looks like the z-axis number of step by mm is off even though the EEPROM value match what we are expecting (2268 step per mm).
So should I start changing this value (I can ask it to move 10cm in Repetier-Host Mac  and see by how much it actually moved and then adjust this value) or is there something else that could be the cause of this.
This is a brand new Solidoodle 2 !!! so one would expect this values to be correct and only have to level the bed and be ready to print.

Thanks for all your help.
Rodolphe

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10 Reply by Photog

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Re: Z dimension issues

Filanent diameter should be 1.75 n0t 3mm

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

11 Reply by rpineau

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Re: Z dimension issues

It is set to 1.75 and the extrusion multiplier is set to 1
As an additional datapoint, I took my digital caliper and measured by how much the bed moves if I click 4 time on the "10" in the manual control... and it did move by 40mm (+/- a few mm as I'm holding it by hand).

Thanks, Rodolphe

12 Reply by rpineau

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Re: Z dimension issues

This is the header of the generated g-code file for the 2x2x2 cm cube :

; layer_height = 0.300
; perimeters = 1
; top_solid_layers = 0
; bottom_solid_layers = 3
; fill_density = 0
; perimeter_speed = 60
; infill_speed = 60
; travel_speed = 75
; nozzle_diameter = 0.4
; filament_diameter = 1.75
; extrusion_multiplier = 1
; perimeters extrusion width = 0.42mm
; infill extrusion width = 0.42mm
; solid infill extrusion width = 0.42mm
; top infill extrusion width = 0.42mm
; first layer extrusion width = 0.42mm

Thanks,
Rodolphe

13 Reply by rpineau

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Re: Z dimension issues

I did another test :
- put marks every 10cm on the filament (used the blue one that came with the printer)
- in the manual control set extrude to 100 mm, click extrude

it extruded 13.3 cm instead of 10 so I guess I need to adjust the extrude step per mm with the M92 command. My current value is 138, so 138/13.6*10 = 101.4576so I'll try with 101.46 and will redo the extrusion test and a print.

Regards, Rodolphe

14 Reply by rpineau

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Re: Z dimension issues

nope .. so it's supposedly now extruding at the right speed (final value was 104 for the M92 E command) and the filament is set to 1.75mm with an extrusion multiplier of 1 ... still only 1.5cm high !!
I attached the gcode produced by slic3r in case someone sees something wrong in there.
The wall thickness of my hollow cuve are very close to 0.42mm so at least there was some progress here. I assume that when I can get the proper height of 2cm they'll be at 0.42mm.
At this point I don't know what else to try.

Thanks, Rodolphe
PS : I've attached all the config file I'm using at this point.

Post's attachments

cube_2_2_2.gcode 28.77 kb, 1 downloads since 2014-02-06 

Solidoodle-2-filament.ini 405 b, 1 downloads since 2014-02-06 

Solidoodle-2-printer.ini 489 b, 2 downloads since 2014-02-06 

Solidoodle2-0.3mm-hollow.ini 1.72 kb, 2 downloads since 2014-02-06 

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15 Reply by rpineau (edited by rpineau 2014-02-06 03:17:09)

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Re: Z dimension issues

I managed to get the eeprom setting with the latest windows version of Repetier (see attache screenshot) in virtualbox.
I can see my changes for the extruder steps/mm (104).
I think next I'll try printing from windows and see what happens.

Rodolphe

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16 Reply by rpineau

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Re: Z dimension issues

So I did a test in a Windows VM with the lastest repetier and ended up with a cube of 2x2x1.75 .. so closer but still not 2x2x2.
I use the 3mm profile for the Solidoodle 6x6 and didn't touch any parameter beside the brim (5mm brim ).
So I have no more idea at this point ..

17 Reply by rpineau (edited by rpineau 2014-02-08 21:37:37)

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Re: Z dimension issues

I did another test with a 2mm profile, Slic3r did 100 slices as expected... en result is ~ 1.6cm high

Rodolphe

18 Reply by tealvince

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Re: Z dimension issues

rpineau wrote:

I did another test with a 2mm profile, Slic3r did 100 slices as expected... en result is ~ 1.6cm high

Rodolphe

I think the extruder and slicing software are wild goose chases.  Neither would give you anything like what you're seeing.  Instead, just try controlling the bed manually with RH or Pronterface or even raw gcode commands.  Watch what the z-rod does and see whether it's correct and repeatable.  For instance:

1) tell it to move, say, 50mm and measure exactly how far it goes. If it's wrong, the problem is in your hardware or firmware settings.

2) Go back and forth to see if it's repeatable. 

3) Put a piece of tape on the z-rod so you can see it's rotational position.  The stepper motor moves digitally so it should go back to the exact same rotational position if you move it a distance then move it back. If not, the driver voltage may be off adjustment and the motor is skipping steps. 

4) If the angle is correct but the bed movement is incorrect, then something may be slipping somewhere around the z-axis nut, though I'm not sure how this could be.

5) You can also use a gcode command turn down the maximum rotation speed.  This might help the problem or at least help you see it happen.  For instance, if you tell the bed to move up or down 25.4mm, count exactly how many rotations the rod goes around.  It should of course rotate *exactly* 18 times.  If not, the step value is off (but you said it was 2268, which is correct), or again the motor is not getting enough voltage and is skipping steps.

19 Reply by rpineau (edited by rpineau 2014-02-16 00:42:30)

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Re: Z dimension issues

I did a lot of tests on the x,y and z axis and they moves the right amount in all direction (tested with a digital caliper).
My problem might be related to my other post (post 49083, I still can't put links in my post).
I'll redo some test on the z-axis as you're suggesting and see if I get the 18 rotations.
The power supply is a 12v @ 10A model (120W), so I assume the steppers are getting enough power.
For the g-code, the speed is controlled by the feed rate if I understand well ?
So something like G1 Z25.4 F40 should move by 25.4mm and be very slow.

Thanks for your help on this.
Regards, Rodolphe

20 Reply by rpineau

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Re: Z dimension issues

I put a piece of red painter tape on the axis (at the bottom near the motor) and ran this command :

G1 Z25.4 F40

and I counted the turn ... 14 and ~ 1/5 turns !!!! not 18 as you said.
So there is definitely something wrong here.
Rodolphe

21 Reply by tealvince

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Re: Z dimension issues

rpineau wrote:

I put a piece of red painter tape on the axis (at the bottom near the motor) and ran this command :

G1 Z25.4 F40

and I counted the turn ... 14 and ~ 1/5 turns !!!! not 18 as you said.
So there is definitely something wrong here.
Rodolphe

Did you by chance measure the z movement in this case?  If you have a 5/16-18 zrod then 14 turns wouldn't get you 1 inch of movement.

In regards to voltage, there is a separate trimmer pot on the board for each of the motors that adjusts the voltage for that line.  The wiki has instructions and reference voltages you should see for each motor.

22 Reply by rpineau

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Re: Z dimension issues

I didn't measure the z movement but will do it tomorrow.
I'll check the voltage too (I'll do a search in the wiki for that).
Thanks, Rodolphe