1 (edited by qw623 2014-02-03 04:59:45)

Topic: Flow rate

I tried printing a single walled calibration cylinder I grabbed off Thingiverse to try and calibrate flow rate, the first print (left) came out alright except for a couple holes where a new layer starts, and is about .6mm thicker than it should be.  After bringing the extrusion multiple down to .712 and printing it again (left) it looks horrible and is covered in holes.  I think that's because of the print head moving too fast, I'm not really sure.  On the bright side the area that doesn't have tons of holes is .43mm thick.  Anyway, I'm not sure what to do from here, help would be very appreciated.
http://i.imgur.com/lk9FDkZ.jpg

2

Re: Flow rate

Don't use a cylinder.  The walls come out wider because the thread is compressed on the inside and stretched on the outside going around the bend, and the flat caliper is going to bridge the curve to a small amount.  Always use something with flat sides.

3

Re: Flow rate

IanJohnson wrote:

Don't use a cylinder.  The walls come out wider because the thread is compressed on the inside and stretched on the outside going around the bend, and the flat caliper is going to bridge the curve to a small amount.  Always use something with flat sides.

I did not know that, thanks for letting me know that.

4

Re: Flow rate

I just went through this today, as I was having issues.  Instead of downloading something from Thingiverse, I made my own test piece that has walls at right angles to each other as well as 45° angles, curves and even a hole in the center to test for roundness.

Here is what the final output looks like after I tweaked the flow rate and the extruder steps.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=4530

The stringy things between the cylinder wall and the outer wall was a result of my Retraction setting.  I had the "Extra Length on Retract" set to .5mm, after I put it back to 0mm, the little stringy things went away.

I've attached my test  model.  If you want to print it, set the Vertical Shells: Perimeters to 1, Horizontal Shells: Top Solid Layer to 0, Bottom Layer to 3, and Infill: Fill Density to 0.  Slice & print. 

You can also use it to calibrate your X & Y steps.  The left side is 50mm, the square notch is 10x10mm, from the left corner to the notch it's 20mm, the hole diameter is 20mm, and the height is 10mmm

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To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

5

Re: Flow rate

pirvan wrote:

I just went through this today, as I was having issues.  Instead of downloading something from Thingiverse, I made my own test piece that has walls at right angles to each other as well as 45° angles, curves and even a hole in the center to test for roundness.

Here is what the final output looks like after I tweaked the flow rate and the extruder steps.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=4530

The stringy things between the cylinder wall and the outer wall was a result of my Retraction setting.  I had the "Extra Length on Retract" set to .5mm, after I put it back to 0mm, the little stringy things went away.

I've attached my test  model.  If you want to print it, set the Vertical Shells: Perimeters to 1, Horizontal Shells: Top Solid Layer to 0, Bottom Layer to 3, and Infill: Fill Density to 0.  Slice & print. 

You can also use it to calibrate your X & Y steps.  The left side is 50mm, the square notch is 10x10mm, from the left corner to the notch it's 20mm, the hole diameter is 20mm, and the height is 10mmm

I'll have to try using this, I've already calibrated my extruder's steps/mm and the X Y Z axes right now the only problem I'm having is getting the wall thickness correct without being full of holes.

6

Re: Flow rate

One thing that might make holes is too much retraction.  Do they always happen at corners or layer changes?

7 (edited by qw623 2014-02-03 04:58:47)

Re: Flow rate

IanJohnson wrote:

One thing that might make holes is too much retraction.  Do they always happen at corners or layer changes?

it's usually worst at layer changes, I hadn't even considered retraction.

8

Re: Flow rate

qw623 wrote:
IanJohnson wrote:

One thing that might make holes is too much retraction.  Do they always happen at corners or layer changes?

it's usually worst at layer changes, I hadn't even considered retraction.

What is your retraction settings?

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

9 (edited by zipperboy 2014-02-03 15:53:00)

Re: Flow rate

pirvan wrote:

I just went through this today, as I was having issues.  Instead of downloading something from Thingiverse, I made my own test piece that has walls at right angles to each other as well as 45° angles, curves and even a hole in the center to test for roundness.

Here is what the final output looks like after I tweaked the flow rate and the extruder steps.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=4530

The stringy things between the cylinder wall and the outer wall was a result of my Retraction setting.  I had the "Extra Length on Retract" set to .5mm, after I put it back to 0mm, the little stringy things went away.

I've attached my test  model.  If you want to print it, set the Vertical Shells: Perimeters to 1, Horizontal Shells: Top Solid Layer to 0, Bottom Layer to 3, and Infill: Fill Density to 0.  Slice & print. 

You can also use it to calibrate your X & Y steps.  The left side is 50mm, the square notch is 10x10mm, from the left corner to the notch it's 20mm, the hole diameter is 20mm, and the height is 10mmm

H i was previously printing with abs and everything was fine except for the fact i didnt have a heated bed xD so i switched to pla and this is what happened http://i.imgur.com/KQUU8oa.jpg any suggestions? someone said it might be flow rate but idk, keep in mind this piece look like it printed perfectly when it was finished but when i try removing it i real realized it was very weak and it broke apart as seen in the pic all my layers are stringy and i printed in 4mm

10

Re: Flow rate

Let me preface this with "I've never had any luck using PLA".  But having said that there are 2 possible problems here, or a combination of the 2.   

1.  The temperature of the PLA is too low, so the layers don't stick to each other.  Increase the temperature 5°C at the time and see if it helps.
2.  The extrusion is too thin, so you have to adjust the flow rate, or the default extrusion width (or both).

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

11

Re: Flow rate

I think pirvan has the ticket with the temp. I never had a good experience with ABS. I print between 172-185 depending on the filament...but I still play around with heat. Also, I have never tried printing 4. I also do .15 for PLA.
Maybe try that?

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

12

Re: Flow rate

pirvan wrote:

Let me preface this with "I've never had any luck using PLA".  But having said that there are 2 possible problems here, or a combination of the 2.   

1.  The temperature of the PLA is too low, so the layers don't stick to each other.  Increase the temperature 5°C at the time and see if it helps.
2.  The extrusion is too thin, so you have to adjust the flow rate, or the default extrusion width (or both).

yea my extruder is extruding about 33mm too much so i have to calibrate it im just having trouble finding the file with arduino also i was originally printing at around 195 when i did this so yea i tried upping the heat with no difference and also where do i go to adjust the width of it extruding

13 (edited by ggunners 2014-02-04 04:47:43)

Re: Flow rate

I saw an example of printing with PLA with the same result and the same item without any strings...

The difference was a fan.

According to the write-up, PLA takes longer to cool so you get less adhesion between layers, printing slower will help, or make sure you have a fan on the plastic. Some have just used a house fan to blow on the print, but that may also cool your extruder.

But, I forgot to ask if you have a fan mounted to the extruder blowing on the print itself?

-- ggunners

SD2 Expert stock, ABS fume fan,
XYZ DaVinci 1.0 stock ABS, Simplify3D
QUBD Two-Up PLA, new 3D printed X gantry, Y idler, flex z coupler, extruder mount, E3D Lite

14

Re: Flow rate

*slams face on desk* hahaha
Sorry none of us asked you that. Yes...when printing PLA, a fan is needed for sure. I posted this very recently on here.
Things I bought:
*40mm fan. available on Amazon.com for around $4 up
*A desk fan (to print a PLA fan mount, you will need a fan...catch 22)
*12v power brick to power the 40mm fan
*3 pin extension cable. Without soldering to your board and making a massive error such as rendering your printer brain dead, buy this so it will reach your supply
*3 pin to 4 pin adapter
*(optional) 3 pin splitter in the event you want to power more than one fan

1) download this http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:38129  it is quick and easy to make. I printed several just to have on the side.
2) Print. I prefer 60% infill to help prevent any wobble
3) Mount to the wooden block and screw fan to print with
4) Toss on the 40mm fan and tighten to prevent wobble (too tight and the print will crack)
5) Wire up the 40mm fan
6) Repeat all steps excluding 1

Of course...if you have a case, it is recommended you remove it. You dont want too little or too much air hitting the filament as it is extruding. But...BUT! you could eternally having the desk fan on when printing PLA. It would take up space and be and eyesore, but would bypass the given steps I took.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

15 (edited by zipperboy 2014-02-03 23:06:26)

Re: Flow rate

ggunners wrote:

I saw an example of printing with PLA with the same result and the same item without any strings...

The difference was a fan.

According to the write-up, PLA takes longer to cool so you get less adhesion between layers, printing slower will help, or make sure you have a fan on the plastic. Some have just used a house fan to blow on the print, but that may also cool your extruder.

But, I forgot to ask if you have a fan mounted to the extruder blowing on the print itself? -- ggunners

I do not currently but I have read that a fan helps out alot also

16

Re: Flow rate

ggunners wrote:

I saw an example of printing with PLA with the same result and the same item without any strings...

The difference was a fan.

According to the write-up, PLA takes longer to cool so you get less adhesion between layers, printing slower will help, or make sure you have a fan on the plastic. Some have just used a house fan to blow on the print, but that may also cool your extruder.

But, I forgot to ask if you have a fan mounted to the extruder blowing on the print itself? -- ggunners

how small of a desk fan are we talking about?

17

Re: Flow rate

14" fan from WallMart is about $15. But As far as compaction I prefer the 40mm fan. Pretty much standard for Solidoodle mods.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

18

Re: Flow rate

Photog wrote:
qw623 wrote:
IanJohnson wrote:

One thing that might make holes is too much retraction.  Do they always happen at corners or layer changes?

it's usually worst at layer changes, I hadn't even considered retraction.

What is your retraction settings?

My retraction acceleration is currently set at 3000.00, that's the only thing I could find in repetier that was obviously a retraction setting.  This is my first experience with a 3d printer, sorry for being such a complete noob.

19

Re: Flow rate

qw623 wrote:
Photog wrote:
qw623 wrote:

it's usually worst at layer changes, I hadn't even considered retraction.

What is your retraction settings?

My retraction acceleration is currently set at 3000.00, that's the only thing I could find in repetier that was obviously a retraction setting.  This is my first experience with a 3d printer, sorry for being such a complete noob.

Check in slic3r settings under printer extruder settings

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

20 (edited by qw623 2014-02-05 17:54:10)

Re: Flow rate

Photog wrote:
qw623 wrote:
Photog wrote:

What is your retraction settings?

My retraction acceleration is currently set at 3000.00, that's the only thing I could find in repetier that was obviously a retraction setting.  This is my first experience with a 3d printer, sorry for being such a complete noob.

Check in slic3r settings under printer extruder settings

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21

Re: Flow rate

qw623 wrote:
Photog wrote:
qw623 wrote:

My retraction acceleration is currently set at 3000.00, that's the only thing I could find in repetier that was obviously a retraction setting.  This is my first experience with a 3d printer, sorry for being such a complete noob.

Check in slic3r settings under printer extruder settings

Try changing retraction amount from 2.5 to 1.00

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

22

Re: Flow rate

Photog wrote:
qw623 wrote:
Photog wrote:

Check in slic3r settings under printer extruder settings

Try changing retraction amount from 2.5 to 1.00

Alright I tried printing a single walled thing again first with an extrusion multiplier of 1 and retraction set at 1.00mm that ended with a print without a single hole, but a thickness of .69mm (left) and again with extrusion multiple of .61 that ended with giant holes and a wall thickness of .60 in the areas with only small holes. (right)

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23

Re: Flow rate

qw623 wrote:
Photog wrote:

Try changing retraction amount from 2.5 to 1.00

Alright I tried printing a single walled thing again first with an extrusion multiplier of 1 and retraction set at 1.00mm that ended with a print without a single hole, but a thickness of .69mm (left) and again with extrusion multiple of .61 that ended with giant holes and a wall thickness of .60 in the areas with only small holes. (right)

Here's a bit better picture of the two prints.

24

Re: Flow rate

doesanyone know where i can find female connectors for the for the board for the bed and thermistor

25

Re: Flow rate

zipperboy wrote:

doesanyone know where i can find female connectors for the for the board for the bed and thermistor

Holy moly.