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Topic: Extreme Curling Issue.

This is the most extreme curling I've seen ever. Since changing to a sheet of glass as the printing surface curling has been much less of an issue till lately. I clean the glass each use with soap and water, dry it, and spray the hell out of it with Aquanet and let it dry as it heats up when clipped to the bed. I wait at least 10 minutes after the temperature in the software reads 103+ to make sure the glass is as hot as it is going to get. It seems like bottom heavy objects are the ones most likely to curl like half spheres. Since those things have no particuler leanings it almost seems like the opposite should be true. Can anyone give me clues as to why things are curling so much? Something I didn't quite get right?

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

There's a couple of things that could help. Is there any option to modify the design at all to reduce the forces involved?

Otherwise, you can probably use an ABS & Acetone mix to 'glue' down the print.

I throw scraps from the printer in a small acetone proof (held nail polish remover) bottle with acetone in it. I use a paint brush to paint this down on the glass at the edges of my print.

A mix the consistency of milk is fine, it evaporates on the hot glass very quickly, but anything printed over it wont come off the bed, and hence keeps that warping in check.

It's MUCH stronger than hairspray.

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

Use a brim.

Use less infill.

Create voids in your design to reduce the pulling inward.

Enclose you print area (cooling inside/upper is pulling the edges inward and up).

And ABS paste. Some people put it on before the print, some people put it on after first later is prined and pause the print to apply it to the edges/brim.

Chuck Bittner is a quadriplegic gamer who is petitioning the major console developers to include internal button remapping in all console games. You can help.
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4

Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

Gomisan wrote:

There's a couple of things that could help. Is there any option to modify the design at all to reduce the forces involved?

Otherwise, you can probably use an ABS & Acetone mix to 'glue' down the print.

I throw scraps from the printer in a small acetone proof (held nail polish remover) bottle with acetone in it. I use a paint brush to paint this down on the glass at the edges of my print.

A mix the consistency of milk is fine, it evaporates on the hot glass very quickly, but anything printed over it wont come off the bed, and hence keeps that warping in check.

It's MUCH stronger than hairspray.


I really can't use Acetone. This is not a well ventilated area. I do have a respirator for when I steam cook models in Acetone, but indoors I would not try to speed evaporate the stuff.

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

Hazer wrote:

Use a brim.

Use less infill.

Create voids in your design to reduce the pulling inward.

Enclose you print area (cooling inside/upper is pulling the edges inward and up).

And ABS paste. Some people put it on before the print, some people put it on after first later is prined and pause the print to apply it to the edges/brim.

In case you didn't notice from the photos I already do have an enclosure. Maybe there is a better hair spray? Ian suggested that vinyl is the main ingredient in hair spray that makes it stick well. maybe there is a way to buy that stuff instead of the hair spray which has other stuff too?

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

Why clean the bed after each use and then put hairspray back on?  You are just removing sticky hairspray and ABS residue.  Let the glass season and build up layers of hairspray and ABS.  I never clean mine, and only add hairspray if I am going to print something that I think has a higher chance of warping.  If you are concerned about discoloration on the bottom of the print, maybe clean the plate when you are changing colors, or give the stained section a quick sanding and acetone wipe.

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

Rocketman wrote:

In case you didn't notice from the photos I already do have an enclosure.

You mean the photos that are close-ups of your curled print with unfocused background? Sorry. No. Cant see that.

Chuck Bittner is a quadriplegic gamer who is petitioning the major console developers to include internal button remapping in all console games. You can help.
Sign Chuck Bittners petition

8

Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

Hazer wrote:
Rocketman wrote:

In case you didn't notice from the photos I already do have an enclosure.

You mean the photos that are close-ups of your curled print with unfocused background? Sorry. No. Cant see that.


I wasn't be crass. I took the photo through the plexiglass enclosure. I wasn't sure if you could see my fingerprints all over it. lol. I've certainly scratched it a few times. lol.

Thanks Ian. I'll give it a shot and clean less often. smile

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

Silly question- when was the last time you leveled your bed?  After enough prints, it needs to be leveled again.  Just making sure, as no one else has mentioned it yet.  Also, you might want to heat up your extruder a little extra for the first layer and slow it down even more.  I know I am pointing out the obvious, but sometimes it can be easily overlooked.  One more suggestion: allow the hairspray to dry before printing, as the wet hairspray could in theory prevent the first layer from sticking by cooling down the filament before it touches the bed and letting it slip once it does.

And +1 for the not cleaning the bed between prints!

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

Rocketman wrote:

I really can't use Acetone. This is not a well ventilated area. I do have a respirator for when I steam cook models in Acetone, but indoors I would not try to speed evaporate the stuff.

But it smells so GOOD!!!

In all seriousness though, do you have an actual problem with Acetone? Because the amount used is negligible, just a small hobby paint brush to paint on a few small patches in the lift prone spots. I hardly even notice the smell.

The tips about less infill and leaving voids in the print are also really helpful. I quite happily use 5% infill on things, though it doesn't help a large flat base, the voids will help that.

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

Rocketman wrote:

I really can't use Acetone. This is not a well ventilated area. I do have a respirator for when I steam cook models in Acetone, but indoors I would not try to speed evaporate the stuff.

You know what nail polish remover is made from, right?

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

Elmoret, you need to paint your nails more- there are a lot of non-acetone removal systems =]

[At least, my sister uses something without acetone]

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

COASTER19 wrote:

Silly question- when was the last time you leveled your bed?  After enough prints, it needs to be leveled again.  Just making sure, as no one else has mentioned it yet.  Also, you might want to heat up your extruder a little extra for the first layer and slow it down even more.  I know I am pointing out the obvious, but sometimes it can be easily overlooked.  One more suggestion: allow the hairspray to dry before printing, as the wet hairspray could in theory prevent the first layer from sticking by cooling down the filament before it touches the bed and letting it slip once it does.

And +1 for the not cleaning the bed between prints!


I releveled it last night and am running a print currently. As you thankfully bring my attention to it, the print came loose. So I guess the curling/peeling issue hasn't be solved yet. It doesn't usually come loose like that and I was only an hour in. I am thinking I should reapply hairspray each and every time, but not clean the glass ever. I touch test each time to make sure the hair spray is dry, but after 30 minutes of heating up I should hope it is dry.

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

So.

That print looks like it takes half your bed. I wouldnt even touch that without a brim. Seriously, it makes a huge difference. Its extremely easy to cut off (and sometimes it just pulls off).

Also, if you put a single void right in the middle of that huge thing, you would be eliminating most of your stress that is pulling it up.

And lastly, I have heard on another board that if you use Elmers glue stick on your bed, it works almost as good as an ABS slurry. If fumes are a problem, this may be worth a try.

While these 3 suggestions may not seem like something you want to do, I am willing to bet you wont get that print without doing all three at the same time.

Chuck Bittner is a quadriplegic gamer who is petitioning the major console developers to include internal button remapping in all console games. You can help.
Sign Chuck Bittners petition

15

Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

Hazer wrote:

So.

That print looks like it takes half your bed. I wouldnt even touch that without a brim. Seriously, it makes a huge difference. Its extremely easy to cut off (and sometimes it just pulls off).

Also, if you put a single void right in the middle of that huge thing, you would be eliminating most of your stress that is pulling it up.

And lastly, I have heard on another board that if you use Elmers glue stick on your bed, it works almost as good as an ABS slurry. If fumes are a problem, this may be worth a try.

While these 3 suggestions may not seem like something you want to do, I am willing to bet you wont get that print without doing all three at the same time.


How do brims work exactly? Are they supposed to be inserted into a model at a certain height by default or relative to how wide or tall the object is ultimately going to be?

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

Slic3r adds it automatically on the first layer only.  It is kind of like adding extra perimeters that go outside the model rather than inside, creating an outline of a width specified in the settings.  The idea is that the shrinking that pulls up the edges can only act on the print itself. Since the brim is only the first layer, most of that shrinking force won't act on it, so it can stay stuck to the bed and help hold the edges down.  Someone suggested that spreading a little acetone on the brim with a paintbrush after it has been printed will help it stick even more.

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

IanJohnson wrote:

Slic3r adds it automatically on the first layer only.  It is kind of like adding extra perimeters that go outside the model rather than inside, creating an outline of a width specified in the settings.  The idea is that the shrinking that pulls up the edges can only act on the print itself. Since the brim is only the first layer, most of that shrinking force won't act on it, so it can stay stuck to the bed and help hold the edges down.  Someone suggested that spreading a little acetone on the brim with a paintbrush after it has been printed will help it stick even more.

Any suggestions for defining the brim in repetier for best results?

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

It's in the slic3r configs, not Repetier.

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

lawsy wrote:

It's in the slic3r configs, not Repetier.

The slic3r tab within Repetier? It at least appears to be the same software. In any case, what should I do in there?

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

It's actually in Slic3r.  You can access the configs through the configure button, which runs an instance of Slic3r.  Once there, you change your settings and save them.  When you close the Slic3r instance, the settings are transferred to RH for you to choose from.

In Slic3r under Printer Settings, you'll see Skirt and Brim.  Change the value for Brim Width to whatever will work for you then save your settings.

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

cckens wrote:

It's actually in Slic3r.  You can access the configs through the configure button, which runs an instance of Slic3r.  Once there, you change your settings and save them.  When you close the Slic3r instance, the settings are transferred to RH for you to choose from.

In Slic3r under Printer Settings, you'll see Skirt and Brim.  Change the value for Brim Width to whatever will work for you then save your settings.

And what width is a good bet generally? I don't mind using extra material to hold it down so long as it cuts off easily enough. And what other variables do I need to play with. I've tried using the brim settings in the past and the layers peeled apart. I'd like to be particular this time.

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

I usually go for a 3 to 5mm brim depending on the object. If I'm printing a bunch of small tall things putting them close together and having their brims become one really helps keep them from getting knocked over.

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

I use a 4 mm brim on most things as it's a good width to lock down a print.  And it will peel off relatively well, but a small file or scrap of sandpaper will clean off any small remainders from the edges.

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

IanJohnson wrote:

Let the glass season and build up layers of hairspray and ABS.

in any way, were you thinking about iron cast pans?lol.

Rocketman wrote:

How do brims work exactly?

you need to spent more time looking at the configurable fields in your RH. it will help.

If you must print this piece in solid, you might want to increase each layer's time, and lower the print speed. so each layer has more time to spread it's heat and the temperature for the whole piece is more uniform...

on top of that... did the lifting occurred on 5th layer? that's too soon... you might want to do a first layer configuration again...

I dont think anyone asked this question yet... what's your room temperature? winter is coming...

Solidoodle2 with Ceramic tile heated bed http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2544/my- … eated-bed/
"1kg should last for an while" is a lie!

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Re: Extreme Curling Issue.

RavensCrest wrote:
IanJohnson wrote:

Let the glass season and build up layers of hairspray and ABS.

in any way, were you thinking about iron cast pans?lol.


That's the idea, though I wouldn't recommend bacon grease as a hairspray alternative.  It would probably smell good though.  Now if you were extruding butter or pancake batter through a paste extruder it would be worth considering.  I doubt you would get much warping with those materials.