1 (edited by pirvan 2013-09-29 19:40:25)

Topic: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

I know there are many extruder mods out there, including some tried and true like Lawsy's MKxxx series, but I have this thing about making my own designs.  Not because I think they're better than everyone else's, but because I want to say it's my own.

My Doodle is currently working fine, and there's probably no reason to change anything, but I'm thinking about replacing the "X" & "Y" carriages with some that have linear bearings.  Why ?  I don't know, becuase there's nothing wrong with the brass bushings other than the grease on the rails.  They're quiet, and (at the moment) there's no slop in them, but I guess Ijust needed an excercise. 

So here is my take on the extruder carriage:

This is drawing shows version 2, but the printed model is of the original design.  There's very little difference between the 2, other than the smaller front half of the frame, and a few less grams of weight.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=3538

The front bearing block has 2x LM8UU bearings, but I think I'll replace them with a single LM8LUU long bearing, as the slightest misalignment adds some binding friction.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=3539

Everything is bolted together with M3 socket head bolts, except the back half of the extruder frame is glued to the front bearing block, and the 2 halves of the filament pressure bearing arm.  As you can probably tell, this was designed to reuse the existing peek body and hot end, as well as the pressure bearing that came with the standard SD3 head.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=3540

The filament guide path was made to fit a piece of 4mm x 2mm PTFE tubing, which can be cut if necessary to provide clearance for the pressure bearing.  The rear bearing block is attached to the motor platform with an M3 bolt with a spring.  This should provide a self-adjusting "semi-floating"rear and prevent binding (I hope).  Last but not least, the Belt adjustment block which was printed separately and then glued in place.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=3541

FYI, all the parts were printed at .1mm layer height and solid infill, so they weigh a little bit more, but they should be quite solid.

Post's attachments

SD3 Extruder 1.jpg
SD3 Extruder 1.jpg 68.47 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

SD3 Extruder 2.jpg
SD3 Extruder 2.jpg 115.81 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

SD3 Extruder 3.jpg
SD3 Extruder 3.jpg 126.37 kb, file has never been downloaded. 

SD3 Extruder 4.jpg 165.28 kb, 1 downloads since 2013-09-29 

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2 (edited by 2n2r5 2013-09-29 20:20:22)

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

Pirvan,

Nice job on the upgrades there. You might want to have the belt connection attached to the platform and not the front bearing module. A couple reasons for that: First being that if it breaks, you would have to remove the rods to replace the broken part and second, the entire weight of the carriage is now pulled from the front 2 m3 screws. That could lead to potential binding. I didn't see where the other side of the belt attaches. Maybe you have something figured out already. I have always like that type of extruder design though. This is a good implementation of it.


I was wondering though, where can you mount accessories? Like the fan, dial indicator, X-Y backlash jig....etc


Nice job on everything so far. Any chance to make the bearing holders snap on so I don't have to destroy my X ends to put them on?


BTW, Watch out for that hobbled gear. I have that on a back up extruder and it DESTROYS filament at the slightest resistance. It doesn't just go click click click. It will actually dig its way through the filament quite effectively. I was impressed and annoyed to find that out.

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

3

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

I think a continued shortcoming of the x carriages is the whole extruder assembly being attached only by two bolts on the front.   Mine always has some wiggle front to back even with Lawsys version.  I'd like to see one that has some way of holding the motor tight to the carriage without using a zip tie.

4

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

2n2r5 wrote:

Pirvan,

Nice job on the upgrades there. You might want to have the belt connection attached to the platform and not the front bearing module. A couple reasons for that: First being that if it breaks, you would have to remove the rods to replace the broken part and second, the entire weight of the carriage is now pulled from the front 2 m3 screws. That could lead to potential binding. I didn't see where the other side of the belt attaches. Maybe you have something figured out already. I have always like that type of extruder design though. This is a good implementation of it.

Thanks,

The reason I have the belt connection attached to the bearing block, is because everything is technically hanging off that.  The back half of the extruder is glued to the bearing block, then the motor is bolted to that.  The weight of the motor is supported by the platform, but it's not physically attached to it.  So the belt will pull the bearing block (and it's load) back and forth, while the rear block simply follows.

Should it ever become necessary to replace the belt or the connector block, All I need to do is remove the rear screw that holds the platform to the rear bearing block and flip it up to get access to the belt connector.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=3542

2n2r5 wrote:

I was wondering though, where can you mount accessories? Like the fan, dial indicator, X-Y backlash jig....etc

I haven't thought that through it.  On the original I used neodymium magnets to hang everything, and that works pretty good, so I might do the same on here.

2n2r5 wrote:

Nice job on everything so far. Any chance to make the bearing holders snap on so I don't have to destroy my X ends to put them on?

If you're talking about installing the bearing block on the rods, you have to remove the rods from the existing ends anyway to slip the bearings on anyway, so I made the blocks a solid tube


2n2r5 wrote:

BTW, Watch out for that hobbled gear. I have that on a back up extruder and it DESTROYS filament at the slightest resistance. It doesn't just go click click click. It will actually dig its way through the filament quite effectively. I was impressed and annoyed to find that out.

This gear is from QU-BD, and in my case I found it to be quite slippery, at least on PLA.  I originally bought it to use on my PrintrBot, and it was useless.  I'll give it a try on ABS, but more than likely I'll end up using the original hobbed gear that came with the SoliDoodle.

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SD3 Extruder 5.jpg
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5

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

IanJohnson wrote:

I think a continued shortcoming of the x carriages is the whole extruder assembly being attached only by two bolts on the front.   Mine always has some wiggle front to back even with Lawsys version.  I'd like to see one that has some way of holding the motor tight to the carriage without using a zip tie.

No Zip ties here. 

The motor (and the heatsink and fan which are not yet attached) is bolted to the front plate, which is glued solidly to the front bearing block.  the platform between the front and back bearing blocks is acting as a bridge, and as weight support for the motor, but as  you can see the motor is not tied to it.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=3543

Now that I think about it though, it would be a good idea to provide some sort of lateral movement restrictor at the back.  As the front of the assembly is wipped back and forth during fast printing moves, the back of it would want to wag, so adding some kind of lateral stops to the plate might not be a bad idea, something like a cradle.

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SD3 Extruder 6.jpg
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6

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

Wow, this looks great!  Now I want to print one..

I should start designing something just because it seems like a good fun way to learn about 3D printer design and print plastic.

Good job though!  I love how simple it is!

7

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

Here is a variation of the horizontal platform/base plate. 

It has lateral support that holds the back end of the motor/fan assembly from wagging back and forth and applying torsional stress to the front mounting plate.  The left side also has a cable routing guide.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=3551

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SD3 Extruder 7.jpg
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8

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

BTW, I'm looking to buy a hot end to fit on this extruder. 

I already posted a wanted add in the buy/sell/trade section, but I know there are some here that may be looking at this thread who have already upgraded their hot ends to other models like the ED3, so if you no longer need your original, I'm in the market.  Please PM me with your information (price, etc)

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9

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

Out of curiosity, what did you design this in? I've been hoping for inventor files if anyone has it so I can modify files while having a lazy start tongue.

10

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

Tomek wrote:

Out of curiosity, what did you design this in? I've been hoping for inventor files if anyone has it so I can modify files while having a lazy start tongue.

It's done in Solidworks. 

I looked and there is no option to export to AutoDesk Inventor.  Take a look at this lst of export options.  If there's anything there you want it exported as, I'll try, other wise I can still post it as an STL if you want to print it.

http://help.solidworks.com/2012/English … uments.htm

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11

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

Jumping on the model formats bandwagon, I'd really like to see it in either IGES or STEP - whichever loses the least info. Those are all I can import in my Geomagic (Alibre) without popping more $$ for the top end package, whose only feature I want is the imports :-(

Don: Folger Tech 2020 Kossel Rev A + Borosilicate + Snow Effector
        Davinci 1.0 + Repetier : Filastruder
        SD3 + RAMPS + Lawsy Carriages + E3D + Borosilicate + ... : Cupcake

12

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

pirvan wrote:

Here is a variation of the horizontal platform/base plate. 

It has lateral support that holds the back end of the motor/fan assembly from wagging back and forth and applying torsional stress to the front mounting plate.  The left side also has a cable routing guide.

Here is yet another variation, and probably closer to what Ian Johnson had in mind. 

This one bolts to the bottom of the fan, and the back of the support platform.  It has 2 slotted holes to allow about 3mm worth of adjustment for possible variations in the fan and heatsink depth.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=3560

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SD3 Extruder 8.jpg
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13

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

I like the bracket at the back, and the wire guide.  How short does the bolt need to be that holds the fixed end of the belt to keep it from running into the bearing on the inside, while not sticking up on the outside and getting in the way of the bolt that holds the adjustable end of the belt?

14

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

IanJohnson wrote:

I like the bracket at the back, and the wire guide.  How short does the bolt need to be that holds the fixed end of the belt to keep it from running into the bearing on the inside, while not sticking up on the outside and getting in the way of the bolt that holds the adjustable end of the belt?

The bolt length (threaded part) should not exceed 6mm.  To clear the adjustable bolt, I would use either a countersunk flat head or a pan/truss heat type with a a very shallow profile.  Total available space is 2mm, which includes the belt thickness.

For those that want to print this or tinker with it, I'm adding the STL files for both versions V3 and V4.  Each STL has all the parts in a layout intended to be printed on the SD3.  You can also use NetFabb to separate and save the individual parts.

In terms of hardware, you'll need the following:

Original motor, heatsink & fan
original hot end
Original pressure bearing + adjustment nut, washers & spring
1x LM8UU bearing for the rear
2x LM8UU bearings for front, or alternately 1x LM8LUU (long)
2x M3 x 25mm (lower extruder frame top bolts)
1x M3 x 20mm (lower extruder frame lower left bolt)
1x M3 x 20mm (pressure bearing arm bolt)
1x M3 x 14mm (upper left corner extruder frame bolt)
2x M3 x 12mm (horizontal support plate front bolts)
1x M3 x 15mm + sprig (horizontal support plate rear bolt)
1x M3 x 25mm (pressure arm adjustment screw - embedded in lower right of extruder frame)
2x pieces 4mm(OD)x2mm(ID) PTFE tubing cut to size for filament guide

Feel free to ask questions.

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SD3 Printhead V3 (parts layout).stl 451.74 kb, 18 downloads since 2013-10-01 

SD3 Printhead V4 (parts layout).stl 524.5 kb, 25 downloads since 2013-10-01 

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15

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

Can you post STP files?  I'd like to try this, since the fit of the MK5 on my E3D has become loose somehow.  I have a new stepper for the extruder that is a little longer than the stock one, so I'd like to extend the back of the platform a little.

16 (edited by pirvan 2013-10-01 18:58:08)

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

IanJohnson wrote:

Can you post STP files?  I'd like to try this, since the fit of the MK5 on my E3D has become loose somehow.  I have a new stepper for the extruder that is a little longer than the stock one, so I'd like to extend the back of the platform a little.

NO problem, what version , AP203 or AP214, does it make any difference?

AS for extending the back, I'm not sure you can go much further, In my case, I have a ball screw nut that is pretty big, and it barely clears it right now, but I'm sure you can figure it out for your particular machine.

Edit: 
Here are the 2 versions of the extruder in STEP format (AP214).  I imported them back into Solidworks, and they appear to be complete.

Let me know if you have any problems with them.

Post's attachments

SD3 Printhead V3.STEP 1.02 mb, 4 downloads since 2013-10-01 

SD3 Printhead V4.STEP 1.06 mb, 11 downloads since 2013-10-01 

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17

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

If I could get my prints to look half as good as the ones shown I would never change a thing on my sd3

18

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

Thanks! Hopefully will be able to apply tweaks/redesign with a legup by using your STP files. In the past I've been able to import reasonably well from Step. 

You solidworks people, insisting on using the buggier software out of legacy wink. [Just kidding, but I'm an ardent supporter of autodesk. Probably because I had to learn solidworks in class via a ridiculous and boring lecture format, versus learning autodesk through project working and online tutorials.] Also because autodesk supports many nifty DIY efforts, and software too sometimes (like meshmixer 2.0).

19

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

Tomek wrote:

Thanks! Hopefully will be able to apply tweaks/redesign with a legup by using your STP files. In the past I've been able to import reasonably well from Step. 

You solidworks people, insisting on using the buggier software out of legacy wink. [Just kidding, but I'm an ardent supporter of autodesk. Probably because I had to learn solidworks in class via a ridiculous and boring lecture format, versus learning autodesk through project working and online tutorials.] Also because autodesk supports many nifty DIY efforts, and software too sometimes (like meshmixer 2.0).

I for one am not a fan of Autodesk.  I used to be a draftsman in a previous life, and Autocad was my bread and butter.  Then I got into computers, but a few years back, I won a copy of 3D Studio at a trade show, for which I had no use, so I tried to sell it.  eBay pulled the listing at the request of the AutoDesk lawyers.

I called them (Autodesk) and according to them you cannot resell any Autodesk products, regardless of whether they've been registered or still in shrinkwrap.  Once you bought them they're yours, "didn't I read the EULA?".  I told them that the package was sealed, therefore I had no access to the EULA, so they said they didn't care.

So what can I do with a $2000 modelling package if I'm not a modeler?  "Give it away, learn to use it, throw it away, return it where I got it, we don't care as long as you don't try to sell it.  Oh, and If I try to relist it, I could get banned from eBay.

Needless to say, I was really pissed.  I was sitting on something of value that I couldn't do anything with, because of their greed and desire to make money by making sure everyone buys a retail copy. 

Ever since them, If I get a chance to heckle those idiots in public (trade shows, etc), I do.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
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20

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

Wow, really?  Thats so stupid..

I know what I'm not going to buy ever..  I'm sitting on an education license of autodesk from my highschool and I know I'm not going to ever renew it now.

So how's solidworks? lol

21

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

ITman496 wrote:

Wow, really?  Thats so stupid..

I know what I'm not going to buy ever..  I'm sitting on an education license of autodesk from my highschool and I know I'm not going to ever renew it now.

So how's solidworks? lol

I learned Solidworks on my own.  I'm no wiz at it by any means, but for what I need to do, I manage.  I've been using it for the last couple of years, and I do mostly mechanical design concepts.

As I mentioned, I work for a computer manufacturer, and periodically I have to design various components and accessories.  Since most prototype and design house in this line of work use Solidworks, the company got a copy for me to use.

Previously I was using pencil and paper, or doing roughs with SketchUp, but that app has some serious limitations.  Solidworks took a little getting used to, but once you get the basics, it's fairly easy to use.  Besides there are thousands of pre-made parts and basic hardware available in the library that make one's work easier.

The models and exported STLs are usually pretty clean and don't require a lot (if any) massaging or repair.  In short, I do like working with it.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
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22

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

Aw thats an awful story about autodesk. I'm sorry that happened to you.   I can see how that'd end the relationship for you.  I am surprised you had such bad luck. Anyway, sorry for derailing the conversation ^_^.

23 (edited by pirvan 2013-10-12 17:07:13)

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

Minor update

I bought a used hot end from one of our members that upgrade to an e3D hot end adn fitted it on the extruder.  At the same time I added the bearing and pressure spring.

I'm not quite ready to do the swap with the original print head yet though.

I noticed there have been a few downloads of the model.  Has anyone else printed this yet? How did it work out for you?

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=3645

Edit:
Updated image

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24

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

I printed one, but I can't use it because the mounting grooves don't match with the E3D.

25

Re: Yet Another Extruder Replacement

IanJohnson wrote:

I printed one, but I can't use it because the mounting grooves don't match with the E3D.

Yeah, I did say it made for the original hot end, but if you want to give me dimensions of the E3D hot end, I could try to make a version for that one.

I would need the diameter, of the fins, as well as of the main tube, fins spacing, thickness, etc.

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