51

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

There are extensive modifications going on to the instructions, while I go through my install.

I am thinking when this is done, I'm going to do a rewrite of the part that mirrors the E3D-provided instructions.  It gets confusing going back and forth between them.  I think it'll be better if I rewrite their instructions with my clarifications, corrections, and amendments integrated directly.  I may have to steal a few of their snapshots to do that, and maybe quote some text.  Going to PM Sanjay to ask if he's okay with me doing this.

52

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1375023_725547947459553_1521896007_n.jpg
I'm working on the wiki page now.

I find that the E3D doesn't quite fit as far back into the MK4 as the Solidoodle did, so I bet I'm going to have trouble getting filament feeding in without guiding it manually into the top.  Wonder if that's because my MK4 printed a little too snug.

53

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

The beveled edge at the top of the E3d sends to be pretty good at guiding the filament in,  alignment may not be as critical.

54

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

The wiki page is making good progress, except for the fact that the wiki is just a little slower than a BBS on a Commodore 64 using a 120-baud acoustic modem while your sister is trying to play guitar next to it.  Where the heck is the server, on Pluto?

55

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

Wiki page is now here:
http://www.soliwiki.com/E3D_extruder

The whole middle is going to be undergoing a major rewrite assuming Sanjay gives me permission to incorporate bits from his instructions.  That way you won't have to flip back and forth between his and mine, which gets confusing.

I've incorporated the page for updating firmware in the same way.  I am very hazy on how this process goes for those with the newfangled Solidoodle proprietary circuit board, so I hope someone will fill in the gaps there.

Lots of rewrites throughout, additional instructions for things I encountered during my install, added pictures.

56

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

So... here we are.  I've got the E3D installed and it, itself, seems to heat up properly and everything's fine.  However, my bed is now taking forever to gain temperature and seems to be leveling off around 85.  And I have no idea why.

The bed itself is unchanged, other than Z-axis calibration.  No change in my enclosure, or the ambient temperature of the room (well, it may be a degree or two cooler due to the season, maybe).  There's also no change to the wiring for the bed heater.  I didn't tie anything new into the power system of the printer other than the E3D (the cooling fan on the E3D isn't wired into it, it's on a separate 12V power supply), so if anything's causing the printer to not have enough power to make the bed heater happy, it's the E3D heater itself.   But even that doesn't make sense because the bed heating slowly happens even when the extruder isn't turned on.

I haven't been able to do the PID autotune yet (that was going to be next) because the first step in that is to get everything to normal temperatures.

Is it possible uploading my firmware updates somehow changed some setting -- that the firmware I downloaded didn't reflect what had been loaded into my printer before this, and now as a result the printer is doing something different on the bed heating?

57 (edited by Hunter Green 2013-09-23 00:21:03)

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

It got to 86 and I went ahead with the PID autotune.  My numbers seem like they changed a lot:

Kp from 22.20 to 13.20
Ki from 1.08 to 0.71
Kd from 114.00 to 61.66

But I've never done this autotune before so maybe they've been bad all along.  Or maybe it's normal for it to change that much when you do the E3D install.

Bed heating back up, still seems slow.

On the positive, filament does go through it and come out... so if I can ever get the bed to heat, I can probably try printing.

58

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

Printing is happening.  Extrusion is fairly even (and no sign of the problem I was having before), though I clearly need to do a calibration for the flow rate -- it's a tiny bit too low, some of the lines in the first layer have some slight space between them.

It's going to be really tedious having to wait an hour for bed heating again... but at least I can print, so far.

59 (edited by Hunter Green 2013-09-23 02:06:25)

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

2n2r5 asked me to post my configuration.h in case something's funky about it.  It's the one that comes with the download recommended on the "update firmware" page, only altered as instructed for E3D.  Attached here.  Maybe something else got changed that's related to the bed heating slowly?

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60

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

The instructions on the wiki are now complete in v1.0 format.

61

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

If your bed heated above 85 before it still should unless there is a bit in the firmware update about that. Although mine goes 100+ no problem. DO you have Printrboard or the Sang?

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

62

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

It does get to just over 85, and I am able to print (though I also have to work on another problem with the home locations, hope to do that today, to get a complete print).  It just takes SOOOO long to warm up before I can print, that's all.  Much longer than when I printed last, a couple of weeks ago.

Sanguinololu, no modifications other than the fans cooling the circuit board.

63

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

The E3D install seems to have gone fine, but a few other seemingly unrelated problems since I did it are keeping me from printing.  I am not sure if they're related to one another, and I'm stumped and, again, frustrated.

1) The heating bed slowdown reported above.  It does eventually get to the mid-80s, but it takes so long.  Nothing has changed that I can see, unless the firmware did it, or unless the extruder heater draws so much current that there's not as much left for the bed?  But the bed takes longer even with the extruder heater turned off.

2) Not a problem so much as an annoyance: the tendency of the LED lights inside the case to flicker seems to have increased.  I mean, a lot; it gives me a headache to be in the room with it.  Does this, combined with #1 above, suggest that my power supply is now inadequate -- either because of the heater drawing more, or just its own general decline?

3) It seems that the X and Y home/park location is in some way "out of synch".  The locations shown in RH don't necessarily correspond to actual locations, and the manual controls won't work.  If I try to make it move the wrong way, it'll grind up against the limit switch, but RH updates its location and now it can move.  However, the X, Y, or all-axis Home buttons just recreate the problem, as does starting the print job (the print head is already in the far back right, but it acts like it's trying to move more that way when I start the job, making a grind noise, then it starts printing properly).  I've had this before when I've had the power off and moved the head around, but I was never sure what cleared it.  (Powering the printer off and back on, disconnecting, etc. doesn't do it.)  This seems like a very simple thing I should know by now, but I can't figure out what to search on, or even how to describe it.

4) The one that actually keeps killing my print jobs, which may be related to #3: I keep having a Y offset on the second or third layer where the whole thing starts printing about 10mm farther towards the back of the printer.  I've had the same print job do this by the same distance at the same time into the job three times now.  I don't see any way it can be the print head getting stuck anywhere, though I haven't been able to catch it happening to see the moment.  I wonder if it's related to #3 because there's a grind noise just before it, like when the head moves to the limit and then can't move past it but RH thinks it is still moving.

During the E3D install, I did not knowingly change anything related to any of this stuff!

64

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

Homing X,Y, and Z establishes the baseline, which RH works from.  This is what resets coordinates after manually moving the print head.

Check your X-endstop to make sure it's hitting properly.

Check your connections on the board.

It sounds like you have some Y-shift, a fan blowing on the stepper drivers should fix that.

65

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

Already have a fan, and this is the same printer I had just before the E3D install.  As noted, homing isn't clearing the problem mentioned above.

66

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

You didn't change your Configuration_adv.h by chance?

ENDSTOPS_ONLY_FOR_HOMING is usually defined, though even if it wasn't I don't think it would explain what you're seeing.

It sounds more like the endstops are not triggering, which is why I suggested checking the connectors; that they're seated properly (proper pins to proper ports).

If you manually push down the endstops to make a connection and manually tell RH to move in towards that endstop, does it move?  If yes, then it I think this isolates the problem.

67

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

I didn't change configuration_adv.h (or make any other changes but the ones in http://www.soliwiki.com/E3D_extruder) but of course I have no way to confirm that the copy linked to from http://www.soliwiki.com/Updating_Solidoodle_Firmware matches what was in my SD3 before I started this.  Is there any chance that the firmware linked there actually is an older version than what I actually was running, and that's causing these problems?

ENDSTOPS_ONLY_FOR_HOMING is, indeed, defined:

#define ENDSTOPS_ONLY_FOR_HOMING // If defined the endstops will only be used for homing

And yes! -- when I push the endstop for X movement by hand, and then ask RH to manually move in the X direction, it does move.

As noted above, this has always happened to me before this, since I first got the SD3, any time I have to move the head around when the motors are off or the printer is unplugged.  However, usually it clears itself up soon after.  I'm not sure which thing I do has cleared it in the past, but it has always happened within one or two tries at printing; and it must be something I haven't done this time, or whatever it was previous times doesn't do it anymore.

68 (edited by 3d-oodler 2013-09-23 20:47:50)

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

I might not have been clear before.  Homing establishes the boundaries for RH.

So you'd need to do something like this:

1) (Disconnected) move the head to the middle of X & Y
2) Connect
3) Hold down the X endstop and tell RH to home X

If it stops immediately, then it's reading the endstop (good),  If it's ignoring your endstop then there's the problem.

FWIW the firmware I have defines X_MAX_POS as 205 not 209 as yours does. (same for MANUAL_X_HOME_POS)

I'm guessing 209 is correct, but perhaps not?

69

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

When I did those steps, it moved a tiny bit to the left (away from the endstop), like a fraction of a second of movement, then stopped.  So it stayed in the middle.  I assume that means it's not ignoring the endstop.

After that, I released the endstop and hit Home X again, and it moved to the endstop and stopped.  Just for kicks I did the same for Y, and it moved back and stopped.  RH now shows Y=0.00 and X=0.00 even though it is at the far right corner.  If I try to move the head with RH, it won't move anymore.

It seems like RH just thinks the far right corner is 0 0 when it's actually 200 200.

At this point, I pressed Park.  The motors made a grinding noise for a few seconds but of course the head had nowhere to go.  Now RH correctly shows Y=200.00 and Y=200.00.  And now I can use the manual controls to move the head.  So right now, everything works as it should.

However, if I start a job, the first thing it's going to do is home, and that'll get RH thinking that the far right is 0 0 again, and then everything'll go wrong again.

It seems like the printer is doing the right thing but RH is confused about where the head actually is when it's parked.

There are no changes in RH's Printer Settings about this: Park Position is still X 200, Y 200, Z 0 in the Printer tab, and Printer Shape is still saying Bed Left and Bed Front are 0, X ranges 0 to 200, Y ranges 0 to 200, and width, depth, height are 200..

70

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

I don't remember if it always did this, but if I disconnect and reconnect, RH starts showing Y=0.00 X=0.00, both in red.  (Z too, for that matter.)  So when I use the Home buttons, those turn black, but become 0.00 when they should become 200.00.  What makes RH choose 0.00 for the home positions there, despite Printer Settings saying the Park position is 200 200?

71

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

...and what does ANY of this have to do with the E3D upgrade which is the only thing that changed?  (Gaaaaah... the wife is giving me a disapproving look.  All this time and I've just made yet ANOTHER trade from one problem to another...)

72

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

Good that your endstops are working properly.

From memory (I'm not @ home) when I connect I get red y(0) x(0), but when I home they read proper, black y(200) x(205) per firmware.

You said yours read x(200) y(200)?  That's not how the configuration.h reads. What's RH EEPROM say?  Is there a homing offset defined there?  Maybe it's worth uploading the firmware again?

73

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

This shouldn't have anything to do with the E3D upgrade AFAIK.

It could be worse.  Very shortly after I got my E3D connected my Sanguino died; so I traded that problem for a RAMPS/Mega upgrade.  But things are good since then.

74

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

The right rear, the park position, is 200 200, and if I fiddle about with moving the heads manually, that's what they correctly show.

The trouble seems to be that when I do Park, or X Home, or Y Home, or All Home, the head moves to the right rear as it should, but Repetier-Host shows 0 0 even though the head is actually at 200 200.  Consequently, RH refuses to move left or forward even though that's the only direction it can go.  And it is willing to try to move right or back, even though it can't.

I don't remember if, last week, after homing, RH showed 200 200; my memory of the screen's not perfect.  It sure seems like it must have been, though; it's corresponding well to RH's unwillingness to move the extruder now.

75

Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification

Check your printer config to make sure it is still looking at X and Y max.

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