Re: To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification
Thanks. I've updated accordingly concerning MK5 hardware, and clarified about kapton and the support extender.
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SoliForum - 3D Printing Community → Hacks & Mods → To sum up, key things to know about the E3D modification
Thanks. I've updated accordingly concerning MK5 hardware, and clarified about kapton and the support extender.
You'll need to change thermistor type to 1 even if using the stock SD thermistor, as type 6 only has data to 265oC...
The type 1 is the same as type 6 in terms of "beta value", but type 1 has a full table.. Not the butchered version used in type 6.
You'll need to change thermistor type to 1 even if using the stock SD thermistor, as type 6 only has data to 265oC...
The type 1 is the same as type 6 in terms of "beta value", but type 1 has a full table.. Not the butchered version used in type 6.
I learn something every day from Adrian.
Can u tell me is there any reason to change it to type six so long as I don't go higher than 265?
adrian wrote:You'll need to change thermistor type to 1 even if using the stock SD thermistor, as type 6 only has data to 265oC...
The type 1 is the same as type 6 in terms of "beta value", but type 1 has a full table.. Not the butchered version used in type 6.
I learn something every day from Adrian.
Can u tell me is there any reason to change it to type six so long as I don't go higher than 265?
If you are assembling the E3D per the directions then you better be going over 265C. A vital part of the directions include a 300C heat soak and tightening.
The instructions here should probably be pulled into their own thread and made a sticky, it looks like an excellent summary of the process.
Correction from earlier today having just looked at the source code:
Its actually 250°C for Type 6.
Its 300°C for Type 1.
Both of them will interpolate higher temperatures - so yes the Temp could report 'as' 350°C .. but the further from that actual top temp you are, the less and less the stated temp is a reflection of reality.
So you can set the temp to 300°C and yes the extruder will happily 'report' that its 300°C, but its *actual* temperature will be quite different to reality...
Question - Why use the existing SD Thermistor anyway ? to do so, you have to dismantle your existing nozzle partially.. Conversely, its pretty easy to crimp another connector onto a pair of wires and run them to the extruder instead - everyone already has to deal with the polarized fan connector, so an extra pair of non-polarised wires should be no sweat. Thermistors also fail - so you'll need to deal at some point with it...
This leaves you an entire spare extruder 'ready to go' ..
Anyway - just a question to those who are doing it this way
Final comment (lets leave discussion here and just make it a Wiki page ) -
If you are doing all the above already - Why bother sticking with the 'stock' connectors anyway... Just throw on JST connectors ala what lawsy did... This way you have cheap, readily available connectors you could put on both the old extruder, the E3D and any other J-Heads you pick-up along the way... To preserve the equivalent of the 'color coding' to allow easy differentiation of which wires do what - Simply use reversed genders between the two sets - Use Male on the SD side for Extruder, and Female on the SD for Thermistor...
Anyway - just my comments - the above methods keep both a 'spare' hotend that works quite fine with the Type 1 table so besides Max_Temp and remembering the need to set different tempreatures in RH still! - Gives you the ability to just swap hotends as needed/required/desired.
Ian is the one who told me not to change the thermistor setting so I am going to hold off updating the post until he weighs in so we hear his side. He's also the one who suggested it might be easier to use the Solidoodle thermistor.
I do intend this to eventually end up either its own thread, or on a wiki, but I wanted to wait until after I've actually done it, and thus fleshed this out and tested it.
The key fact that needs to change is using type 1 regardless of which thermistor is used. I'm just telling you how the firmware tables are set..
Thermistortables.h
#if (THERMISTORHEATER_0 == 1) || (THERMISTORHEATER_1 == 1) || (THERMISTORHEATER_2 == 1) || (THERMISTORBED == 1)
const short temptable_1[][2] PROGMEM = {
{ 23*OVERSAMPLENR , 300 },
{ 25*OVERSAMPLENR , 295 },#if (THERMISTORHEATER_0 == 6) || (THERMISTORHEATER_1 == 6) || (THERMISTORHEATER_2 == 6) || (THERMISTORBED == 6) // 100k Epcos thermistor
const short temptable_6[][2] PROGMEM = {
{1*OVERSAMPLENR, 350},
{28*OVERSAMPLENR, 250}, //top rating 250C(Note - yes it has a pointless '350' entry on type 6 - that is so massively interpolated from 250 (the actual table top) it may as well not be there )
Configuration.h
// 1 is 100k thermistor - best choice for EPCOS 100k (4.7k pullup)
// 6 is 100k EPCOS - Not as accurate as table 1 (created using a fluke thermocouple) (4.7k pullup)(Note the comment 'not as accurate as table 1'.... theres a reason for that as shown above
But it is finer grained in the 'standard' temp ranges the SD operates at (190-200) so hence why its used by default for Solidoodle's Firmware)
As for the suggestion for the want of two wires to change the thermistor instead of cannibalising the old hot end and rendering it unserviceable until 'repaired' is entirely your own choice.. I was simply pointing out the logic of not doing that.
I appreciate the input, that's why I put this post here in the first place -- I just want to give Ian a chance to comment too!
Solidoodle confirmed they've cancelled my order for a new stock extruder from two weeks ago. Once the refund shows in PayPal I'll go ahead with the E3D order. Wheee!
Hunter, this looks great, wish I'd seen it sooner, now that I'm stuck in the middle. I think Updating_Solidoodle_Firmware needs some additional text for those of us with the Printrboard instead of ATMega644P or ATmega1284P. That's where I'm hung up now.
If you want to write up a bit for me to insert, I'll be happy to. Maybe I'll run into that same problem when I get to that point! (Alternately, you might want to send your input to the wiki maintainers -- might as well have that page be right, and keep pointing to it.)
Also, Heartlander, please take notes about any bits of this you can suggest improvements for, or post any pictures you took of your process so I can include them if they help make it more clear.
I've done a few rewrites to reflect adrian's comments, but still left a bit of red text in there awaiting Ian's chance to answer adrian's thoughts about changing the thermistor table. I also did some clarifying about the pros and cons about cannibalizing the connectors and thermistor versus keeping them to be a backup, since that had gotten spread out over a bunch of separate points.
For my own purposes, I actually have a spare set of connectors from my original Solidoodle extruder, which got completely fubared with PLA, but which I cleverly saved in case I needed parts from it one day. So whether I use the Solidoodle thermistor or not, I will probably wire my E3D with the same red/blue connectors so it and my current extruder can be swapped easily.
wardjr wrote:adrian wrote:You'll need to change thermistor type to 1 even if using the stock SD thermistor, as type 6 only has data to 265oC...
The type 1 is the same as type 6 in terms of "beta value", but type 1 has a full table.. Not the butchered version used in type 6.
I learn something every day from Adrian.
Can u tell me is there any reason to change it to type six so long as I don't go higher than 265?If you are assembling the E3D per the directions then you better be going over 265C. A vital part of the directions include a 300C heat soak and tightening.
So that's what those instructions are for... I never did that during assembly and I am sure it's the correct process. However, I didn't and I haven't had any problems. As far as the thermistor change I believe it is best to switch it with the one included and change the firmware to type 1 along with max temp change. My reason for using the stock thermistor was simple... It was only held in place with Kapton tape and already had the wires and connector in place therefore in the excitement of installing the new hot end it was a quick and easy way to get up and printing.
The E3D has proven itself (to me) to be absolutely bulletproof and perfectly reliable. I am pretty sure I could feed it with sticks and it would make it into a good print ![]()
I didn't know what the difference between tables 6 and 1 were, just that one was supposedly better. Using the stock thermistor is more a matter of convenience so you don't have to mess with spicing the wires, adding connectors, insulating the legs, etc. In general, I hate fiddling with thermistors (Thermistors! Why did it have to be thermistors?).
Okay, I've revised the write-up to reflect all this input. I think it's a good deal clearer about the options for reusing Solidoodle parts pros and cons.
Looks good BUT just remember with E3D you use "proper" ABS temps. You quoted 210, which on a Solidoodle nozzle is correct, but that temp on an E3d is actually 240...the thermistor is right next to the melt zone so no need to -30o like on the SD nozzle.
So the 250 accuracy limit of type 6 would remain a genuine concern still as it's only got 10o left before it's inaccurate
So that means you want to change all your configurations to reduce the extruder temperature by 30, is that right?
It was increase, not reduce. I've updated the instructions accordingly. I think I'll have to update them later to find the seventy-three different places the temperatures are hidden again and record them all.
Are there any other changes in how you print after the E3D is installed?
nozzle size is .4 instead of .35
and theres only 3 places with the temps...
I still need to change nozzle size to .4 and thermistor type to 1. Which files are those settings in, I can't find them?
I made the change to configuration.h to make the max temp 350. I compiled it. When I look at the folder, only configuration.h shows a change on the date time stamp, is that correct?
I am getting confused now on which instructions to follow. After the nozzle and thermistor type changes am I ready to upload the firmware with the HID bootloader?
If so, is this next part correct?:
- Download Lincomatic's BootloaderHID.zip and extract the files.
- Move the firmware.cpp.hex file from the previous section into the BootloaderHID folder.
(I cannot find the firmware.cpp.hex file. Where, oh where, could it be?)
- Connect your motherboard to your PC via USB. Add a jumper to the BOOT pins and press the RESET button to reset into bootloader mode. If you do not have a jumper, just short the pins together and press reset.
- Open a command prompt window. Navigate to BootloaderHID folder in the command promt window and type the following command, substituting your file in for "firmware.cpp.hex":
hid_bootloader_cli -mmcu=at90usb1286 -w -v firmware.cpp.hex
Your firmware should upload to your motherboard very quickly before resetting.
Once you have configured your firmware, hold "shift" and click "compile" for the verbose output.
This will show where the file is on the bottom of the screen. It should look alot like this:
C:\Users\Rob\AppData\Local\Temp\build8617075070215098500.tmp\Solidoodle3_6142013.cpp.hex
Your folder will be different. You can copy your output and enter it into file explorer (or simply navigate it by reading the output). Copy that file and place it into the HIDBootloader folder you created when unzipping the download. Then follow the rest of the directions you have:
- Connect your motherboard to your PC via USB. Add a jumper to the BOOT pins and press the RESET button to reset into bootloader mode. If you do not have a jumper, just short the pins together and press reset.
- Open a command prompt window. Navigate to BootloaderHID folder in the command promt window and type the following command, substituting your file in for "firmware.cpp.hex":
hid_bootloader_cli -mmcu=at90usb1286 -w -v firmware.cpp.hex
Your firmware should upload to your motherboard very quickly before resetting.
Holy cow! I think... I think it's printing! It is! It is printing! IT'S ALIVE!!!!
Okay, so the nozzle size, this is a Slic3r setting change only, or is there more to it than that?
nozzle size is .4 instead of .35
and theres only 3 places with the temps...
Four, actually. Though two of them are very close to one another, which makes the second one extra-easy to miss, particularly as you have to scroll to find it.
I've updated the write-up to reflect all four temperature settings to change, as well as the nozzle diameter, though I'm not sure that the nozzle diameter doesn't also have to be changed somewhere other than Slic3r -> Printer Settings -> Extruder 1 -> Size.
My E3D finally arrived today. Not sure how soon I'll actually be able to do anything about it, though. I'm sick as a dog right now, and there's so much to do this weekend I doubt I'll be able to even think about it. Why do things always arrive just after a quiet period when you had time to do stuff, and just before one where you're too busy for a while?
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