1 (edited by jerseydevil 2013-03-11 12:40:15)

Topic: Calibration issue or something else?

So I'm trying to print a cylinder and I keep getting things that are not quite round.
Not sure if it's an calibration issue as cubes print square.
I've attached a picture of both attempts showing repeatable error.
The original was drawn in SketchUp and exported to STL via the Ruby add-on.

This was done with the default software.
I'm trying Slic3r now.

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2 (edited by nickythegreek 2013-03-11 13:37:22)

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

You will want to follow the instructions laid out in this video to resolve this issue:

3 (edited by jerseydevil 2013-03-11 15:00:57)

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

Thanks!  My attempts with Slic3r were interesting.  Of course they produced the same arc error because the error is in the on-board machine control.  However, added to that with only changing the bed size in Slic3r I was able to reproduce an error someone else was having.  So now I know that their problem was a setup issue for Slic3r.  Course that brings me back to this tiny issue.

I guess the dead giveaway was that my first print was a 'companion cube' with little round buttons on each of the 6 faces.  One face was unsupported so that is junk.  The top face is not round and has similar error.  The side faces are all basically round because they were fabricated by the layers vertically.

I'll try this tonight.

Danger: 'Addams Family' sense of humor.

4 (edited by jerseydevil 2013-03-13 15:02:46)

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

It seems the printer is sort of touchy about this.  I was confused why I was having issues then I noticed that the set screw in the right collar (me facing the front of the printer assembly) is stripped out and has been since the beginning.  I can't tighten and I can't loosen it at all with the 1.5mm hex key.  I get just enough traction in the head to feel like it is screwing and unscrewing but clearly it is not.  Lucky me getting that off is going to be a chore.

Danger: 'Addams Family' sense of humor.

5 (edited by jerseydevil 2013-03-13 12:40:40)

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

I guess those gear pulleys are pressed on those collars?  I don't see how else I can remove that damaged collar without removing the shaft.  I guess maybe I'll try one of my tools for this but I have a feeling it is in there too well.  Also this item does not appear to be a spare part I can get.  So I guess I need to bust out the micrometer.

Danger: 'Addams Family' sense of humor.

6 (edited by ronsii 2013-03-13 15:14:37)

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

Here is a link that Ian posted the other day for the pulleys, you can find them elsewhere also. Do you have the means to fix the collar or drill and tap a new locking hole in it or maybe put an extra locking collar next to it and then couple both together.

https://sdp-si.com/eStore/PartDetail.as … roupID=347

7

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

Yes they are one piece the collar and gear pulley. One of the other threads on here from IAN I think he has a link to where you can buy them  on amazon like $6 I think it is a 6mm pulley

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

8 (edited by jerseydevil 2013-03-13 16:31:37)

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

ronsii wrote:

Here is a link that Ian posted the other day for the pulleys, you can find them elsewhere also. Do you have the means to fix the collar or drill and tap a new locking hole in it or maybe put an extra locking collar next to it and then couple both together.

https://sdp-si.com/eStore/PartDetail.as … roupID=347

I could but to me it seems more effort than taking the unit all the way apart.
Possibly grinding flats in that shaft as well while I am at it.
Then reassembling.

I doubt that temporary thread locker led to this screw being over tightened like this.
I bet when I get that shaft out they'll be evidence of slipping so someone monkeyed down on it.

If I find that I'll post a picture.

Danger: 'Addams Family' sense of humor.

9

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

Yes flats or better yet a keyed shaft ends. I have been speaking with SD about my alignment issues and tension and they do not recommend tension checker, they do not need to be the same. Because the plastic parts are not true there will be some slob and you need the right tension to prevent binding left to right. I will tension yet again and measure the tension (although different) on each side though as a reference

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

10

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

But the thing about the flats or keys I am not sure if you can do that and prevent binding. Because the carriage and rods might not be true they need a little slop or it will bind. and right now when you loosen the pullies you allow the left and right one to slip separately so the right number of teeth line up, fine the center, then you lock it down.

I bet that each pulley is not in same position or index to each other. Now in machine build you would do this but then your pushing the alignment and index out to the belt. So would have to ensure you have the right length and teeth from each pulley to the belt or at least you would have to adjust the alignment by moving the belt by the #teeth on the pully.

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

11 (edited by ronsii 2013-03-13 16:47:29)

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

Another thing you could do is put a small hose clamp(like the SD ones) next to the collar then put a bigger clamp around both the collar and clamp(as long as it clears the back case), this is more of a quick fix but would probably last as long as you want.

12

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

ronsii wrote:

Another thing you could do is put a small hose clamp(like the SD ones) next to the collar then put a bigger clamp around both the collar and clamp(as long as it clears the back case), this is more of a quick fix but would probably last as long as you want.

At that point I'll get my shrink tubing out and my hot air tools.  Shrink a new collar to the old one.
I ordered those pulleys.

Danger: 'Addams Family' sense of humor.

13 (edited by jerseydevil 2013-03-13 18:30:03)

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

jjcuff1 wrote:

But the thing about the flats or keys I am not sure if you can do that and prevent binding. Because the carriage and rods might not be true they need a little slop or it will bind. and right now when you loosen the pullies you allow the left and right one to slip separately so the right number of teeth line up, fine the center, then you lock it down.

I bet that each pulley is not in same position or index to each other. Now in machine build you would do this but then your pushing the alignment and index out to the belt. So would have to ensure you have the right length and teeth from each pulley to the belt or at least you would have to adjust the alignment by moving the belt by the #teeth on the pully.

There are a couple of solutions I can see.

For example I could fix a collar to the shaft on the flat and float the gear pulley then lock it on the larger diameter.  Coupling the torque on a larger diameter coupling should reduce the shear.  Might even be able to use shrink sleeving.

If I was willing to pay 5x more for the gear pulleys I could get FairLoc(TM) gears for the 6mm gear pulleys in the back from SDP-SI as well.

Danger: 'Addams Family' sense of humor.

14

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

Ronsii,

You have any other part# or web links for the SD?
Like the bushings in the Y carriage, stepper motor and boards, cpu and board

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

15 (edited by jerseydevil 2013-03-13 18:21:19)

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

jjcuff1 wrote:

Ronsii,

You have any other part# or web links for the SD?
Like the bushings in the Y carriage, stepper motor and boards, cpu and board

As it relates to the SD2.

It is my understanding that the gear pulley on shafts closer to the front of the machine are 5mm while those in the rear are 6mm.  I have not confirmed this myself.  Those parts from the link above are 2.03mm metric XL pitch.  I have no tooth count or I'd order some and verify it.

If someone suspects they know the right SDP-SI part numbers and just wants someone to confirm it, let me know and I'll order the parts up and compare them so we know we have the right part numbers.  I'll provide pictures in case there's some difference from one SD2 to another SD2.

Same is true for the spacers on the PCB.  I am not missing any but when I get back to my machine I'll dig through my shop and see if I can find the part numbers at Mouser Electronics or DigiKey.

Danger: 'Addams Family' sense of humor.

16

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

jerseydevil wrote:
jjcuff1 wrote:

Ronsii,

You have any other part# or web links for the SD?
Like the bushings in the Y carriage, stepper motor and boards, cpu and board

As it relates to the SD2.

It is my understanding that the gear pulley on shafts closer to the front of the machine are 5mm while those in the rear are 6mm.  I have not confirmed this myself.  Those parts from the link above are 2.03mm metric XL pitch.  I have no tooth count or I'd order some and verify it.

If someone suspects they know the right SDP-SI part numbers and just wants someone to confirm it, let me know and I'll order the parts up and compare them so we know we have the right part numbers.  I'll provide pictures in case there's some difference from one SD2 to another SD2.

Same is true for the spacers on the PCB.  I am not missing any but when I get back to my machine I'll dig through my shop and see if I can find the part numbers at Mouser Electronics or DigiKey.

Correct on the 6 and 5 mm sizes I don not have part numbers with me right now but it really isn't that hard to figure most of them out... nothing is 'special' just about everything is 'off the shelf'

17

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

Yes fronts are smaller. 5mm

I am wondering (I know cost a factor) But why even drive both sides of the carriage? With right stepper and setup you can just drive left side (the side with Y X motors) of the carriage and alignment goes away. You can even probably direct drive the belt with the stepper. Several configurations but then you can easily lube and get good alignment no binding from the other side. Maybe have a bigger stepper to do this

and then cantilever the carriage to the other side like it is but simplify it clean it up out in a linear bear that handles some thrust and yaw to account for slop in the rods and misalignment but it just floats on that rod. no pulleys or belts


similar to have just 2 linear slides. You can buy them pre-assembeld already: get one for the Y mount a  a bracket that holds the x stepper and another linear slide then on the x slide mount your extruder and have a simple slide rod to support the x slide

hmmm I will google smile

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

18 (edited by jerseydevil 2013-03-13 19:02:36)

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

jjcuff1 wrote:

I am wondering (I know cost a factor) But why even drive both sides of the carriage? With right stepper and setup you can just drive left side (the side with Y X motors) of the carriage and alignment goes away. You can even probably direct drive the belt with the stepper. Several configurations but then you can easily lube and get good alignment no binding from the other side. Maybe have a bigger stepper to do this

and then cantilever the carriage to the other side like it is but simplify it clean it up out in a linear bear that handles some thrust and yaw to account for slop in the rods and misalignment but it just floats on that rod. no pulleys or belts

similar to have just 2 linear slides. You can buy them pre-assembeld already: get one for the Y mount a  a bracket that holds the x stepper and another linear slide then on the x slide mount your extruder and have a simple slide rod to support the x slide

hmmm I will google smile

Generally the solution to the axis twist on gantry machines is to increase the contact surface to the rails such that the twist is minimized and then reduce the loading on the movement by driving both sides.

The issue is that generally the larger the distance between the load bearing guides on the rails the further from the edges of the machine your working area gets.  So your work surface gets smaller.

In CNC machines that are plasma / router this means that a 48" x 48" gantry will have a smaller working area than the outer dimensions of the machine.  The more widely spaced the linear bearing blocks are the smaller the working area because it is supporting the other axis.

I'm not sure if you approach this as such you won't end up reducing the work area of the machine.

I do have some Thompson linear bearings that I could try to figure out how to put in there later.  Course those linear bearings and rails cost nearly $100 each at the time.

What they did here is invert a rack and pinion drive you might find on a CNC plasma / router system.
Course the risk they created is that obviously a fixed rack made of bronze does not have nearly as many issues as a cogged belt.

My other printers I actually made use linear positioning systems with AC servos on multiple start screws.
Each axis easily exceeds the cost of one SD2.  On the plus side once those systems are homed they are highly repeatable over repeated movements.  Clearly the more times these axis transverse the machine they start to move ever so slightly making it hard to go and come back to exactly the same spot every time.

Danger: 'Addams Family' sense of humor.

19

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

Thanks for the info. yes I Agree driving both sides and reducing the work space is standard but for such a small area and to reduce the binding headaches and cantilevered system could apply here for such small loads and forces? Would you agree?

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

20 (edited by jerseydevil 2013-03-13 19:21:52)

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

jjcuff1 wrote:

Thanks for the info. yes I Agree driving both sides and reducing the work space is standard but for such a small area and to reduce the binding headaches and cantilevered system could apply here for such small loads and forces? Would you agree?

For such a small workspace I don't see why they did not pull and push the X carriage on the support rods from directly over the top in the middle.  If you think about it if you were directly over the center of the X carriage there would be no twist at all and the machines are not open at the top in the enclosure anyway.

It would not have been all that hard to fabricate a bridge that is high enough over the X carriage with the extruder and filament feed so that it could traverse under it and still attach to the axis above.  You could easily make it with polycarbonate or even laminated birch plywood.  Just print corner blocks.

Plus this way you replace the round rods on the sides with square stock.  Use real ball bearings to run up and down them.
The result of driving it this way is like pushing a little car from the top center.  So you put the little car on tires and those tires are the bearings.

Danger: 'Addams Family' sense of humor.

21

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

true

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

22 (edited by jerseydevil 2013-03-13 19:32:22)

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

jjcuff1 wrote:

true

I could see making a modification for this.  However it would make the machine taller and given how the frame is integral to the system I'm pretty sure some cutting would be required.  Though maybe there's a way to do it.  Will have to look at the system more closely.  I'm pretty sure the cover would need to have the top opened up to make room for this even if the frame could be worked around.  Unless some Z axis working range was sacrificed (what fun is that?)

Danger: 'Addams Family' sense of humor.

23

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

ronsii wrote:

Correct on the 6 and 5 mm sizes I don not have part numbers with me right now but it really isn't that hard to figure most of them out... nothing is 'special' just about everything is 'off the shelf'

The front gear pulleys are also 18 tooth right?

Danger: 'Addams Family' sense of humor.

24

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

They are idlers so it shouldnt matter anyway

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

25 (edited by jerseydevil 2013-03-13 20:41:46)

Re: Calibration issue or something else?

jjcuff1 wrote:

They are idlers so it shouldnt matter anyway

It might impact the belt performance a bit as too much change from the stock tooth count might change the angle of the forces on the belt.

I will soon see if upgrading the 3 gear pulleys on the rear axis drive makes this better as I altered my order to get 3: 18 tooth, MXL, FairLoc(TM) hub, 2 flange pulley.

In theory they should not slip on that shaft if the set screw was almost good enough and I rid myself of having to flat the shafts to do it.  Course they did cost almost $20 each.

Danger: 'Addams Family' sense of humor.