26 Reply by knucklbustr

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Re: Better Heated Bed?

Replaced my DAV 1.0 about a yr ago w/ this Heated Bed http://www.ebay.com/itm/XYZPrinting-DaV … Swv0tU56w4

No prbs. Hes a reg poster on Voltivo

DaV1.0  10/13
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27 Reply by grob (edited by grob 2015-11-16 23:43:33)

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Re: Better Heated Bed?

veehoo wrote:

Hi grob,

Thank's for your helpful answer, gave me lots of info and thoughts. I'll start by explaining my build:

I also had a similar bow in my mk2b so that the middle part of the pcb was higher than the corners, so I screwed the pcb to a flat wooden plate before attaching the alu bed with pads of vhb tape. I got it reasonably flat but maybe not perfect, so I'm hoping it'll also settle down straight in time. I put small tape pads on corners, sides, the middle and a few in between. Before that, I glued the thermistor to the mk2b with this: http://www.amazon.com/Arctic-Alumina-Th … B0009IQ1BU . And I also drilled a hole to the alu bed for the thermistor wire to run through and taped the wires on the alu bed. The pcb is definitely not touching the alu bed.

I took your advice and measured the temperature with my (VC99) multimeter, and it shows the same temp as the thermistor so I think I'm good there. Also, i think my thinking has been clouded by the crappy SD4 heater, and maybe I don't need 110C on the thermistor reading with this setup. It'd also help with the heating time, I do get from 20C to 100C in about 12min, the last 10 degrees to 110C is very slow.

So, all in all, maybe I need to stop worrying and start printing smile First test prints @100C came out fine at least.

Thanks for your help,

veehoo

Good work, glad it's gone off without a hitch! smile

Yup, Pirvan's right, somewhere in the 80-100C actual temperature mark holds for most prints. I've found there's a threshold temperature to get the first layer to stick (below about 75-80C I wasn't having much luck), and this is usually good for most parts (even quite large ones... did a 160mm x 25mm x 10mm rectangular part the other day at 90C bed temp with no warp at all. Black ABS @ 240C, enclosure 40~50C, 5mm brim, 0.2mm layers, 60% infill). I tend to err on the higher side if unsure, as a long history of struggling with warping makes me so angry when it happens haha.

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
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28 Reply by veehoo

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Re: Better Heated Bed?

Yep, I've started on Pirvan's path and have now done a few (smallish) prints @95C bed temp without issues, will continue from there to find the said threshold.

The distinction here is, that while you guys are probably using aquanet hairspray, I've been forced to use harispray + gluestick still, haven't found a suitable odorless hairspray here in Europe that'd hold on its own.

And yeah, I totally get your 'better safe than sorry' attitude wrt warping wink

29 Reply by pirvan

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Re: Better Heated Bed?

veehoo wrote:

Yep, I've started on Pirvan's path and have now done a few (smallish) prints @95C bed temp without issues, will continue from there to find the said threshold.

The distinction here is, that while you guys are probably using aquanet hairspray, I've been forced to use harispray + gluestick still, haven't found a suitable odorless hairspray here in Europe that'd hold on its own.

And yeah, I totally get your 'better safe than sorry' attitude wrt warping wink

Sounds like you're on the right path to getting your bed dialed in.

How long does it take to heat up not to only 95°C ?

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

30 Reply by grob

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Re: Better Heated Bed?

With the hairspray, check the back of the can for ingredients that match the back of the US aquanet:
http://c2.q-assets.com/images/products/p/lor/lor-030_2z.jpg
Basically the Vinyl Acrylate (VA) Copolymer ingredient is what you're looking for, effectively it's PVA glue in a can. smile

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

31 Reply by veehoo

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Re: Better Heated Bed?

pirvan wrote:
veehoo wrote:

Yep, I've started on Pirvan's path and have now done a few (smallish) prints @95C bed temp without issues, will continue from there to find the said threshold.

Sounds like you're on the right path to getting your bed dialed in.

How long does it take to heat up not to only 95°C ?

I did a real measurement this morning, with a stop watch and all this time around wink.

Starting from a cold printer, hotend cold, chamber cold, printer thermistor reading 21.1C. Glass on top of the mk2b. Time for me to 95C is 12:15 minutes.

I'm not totally satisfied with that, but then again, the prints are good. Somehow for me the aluminium bed gets really hot as well, certainly increasing the heat up time in the process. Maybe I've got the wrong type of VHB tape, the kind that conducts heat or something. I thinks I'm gonna try to put some insulator there in between the aluminium and pcb at some point to test.

32 Reply by veehoo

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Re: Better Heated Bed?

grob wrote:

With the hairspray, check the back of the can for ingredients that match the back of the US aquanet:
...
Basically the Vinyl Acrylate (VA) Copolymer ingredient is what you're looking for, effectively it's PVA glue in a can. smile

Thanks grob for this, had no idea what to look for in a hair spray. Need to go fetch a few candidate cans from a supermarket and give it a try.

33 Reply by carl_m1968 (edited by carl_m1968 2015-11-19 07:59:31)

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Re: Better Heated Bed?

veehoo wrote:
grob wrote:

With the hairspray, check the back of the can for ingredients that match the back of the US aquanet:
...
Basically the Vinyl Acrylate (VA) Copolymer ingredient is what you're looking for, effectively it's PVA glue in a can. smile

Thanks grob for this, had no idea what to look for in a hair spray. Need to go fetch a few candidate cans from a supermarket and give it a try.


Just make sure it has the the ingredient Grob listed, Vinyl Acrylate (VA) Copolymer and it should work.. It has to spray type, pumps won't work.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
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34 Reply by pirvan

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Re: Better Heated Bed?

What about just ordering it from eBay in the US and having it shipped to your location.  THis one here claims they ship worldwide

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aqua-Net-Profes … SwwbdWQhiU

Shipping to UK is $20, so the total cost is just under $30.  While that does sound like a lot of money, the can will last a very long time, I'm still on my first can, almost 2 years later.

Or you could get 2 cans to minimize shipping costs.

Just a thought...

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

35 Reply by pirvan (edited by pirvan 2015-11-19 15:19:15)

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Re: Better Heated Bed?

grob wrote:

With the hairspray, check the back of the can for ingredients that match the back of the US aquanet:
Basically the Vinyl Acrylate (VA) Copolymer ingredient is what you're looking for, effectively it's PVA glue in a can. smile

You know I never bothered to look at the ingredients, but now that I did, I'm glad I don't use this stuff (on my hair). 

I mean, would you want all this plastic & vinyl crap in you hair???

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

36 Reply by jagowilson

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Re: Better Heated Bed?

I wonder the same thing especially after learning how flammable it is wink

37 Reply by pirvan

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Re: Better Heated Bed?

Does anyone here remember the infamous Michael Jackson Pepsi commercial when his hair caught on fire?  I'm sure all that hair spray he had on didn't help.

For those too young to remember, it happened nearly 32 years ago.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01 … 74169.html

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

38 Reply by veehoo

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Re: Better Heated Bed?

pirvan wrote:

What about just ordering it from eBay in the US and having it shipped to your location.  THis one here claims they ship worldwide

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aqua-Net-Profes … SwwbdWQhiU

Shipping to UK is $20, so the total cost is just under $30.  While that does sound like a lot of money, the can will last a very long time, I'm still on my first can, almost 2 years later.

Or you could get 2 cans to minimize shipping costs.

Just a thought...

Not a bad thought Pirvan. One question though, the aforementioned Aquanet is 'Class 2, super hold' whereas I've seen people recommending 'Class 4, extra super hold' or something. Is there a difference between the two, do you know?

39 Reply by pirvan (edited by pirvan 2015-11-23 15:15:29)

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Re: Better Heated Bed?

I've no idea of the differences.  I use the blue can, #2 Super Hold.  Works great for me, and I like it because it's unscented.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

40 Reply by grob

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Re: Better Heated Bed?

Yup, no idea whether there is really any difference. Guess one could compare the ingredients, see if anything changed. But then it could also be down to the relative quantities of glue / other things in the mixture, which might not be obvious.

This all being said, an experiment with a couple of local brands is probably not going to cost you much! smile

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi