1 Topic by jdholbrook33

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Topic: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

It's been some time since I posted in the forum. In that time I have had some problems with my pancreas and it's kept me from going forward with my 3D printing.
Now that I've semi recovered I was able to get back to my pet project.
Both of my Da Vinci printers have problems with the glass. One is cracked up the middle after much flaking of the glass, the other is going the same route with flaking on each print job.

I wanted to find a borosilicate glass to replace the original. A call to XYZPrinting and request for warranty replacement was met with "For the heated bed, we sell the whole Z-axis platform with the bed and it is priced at $100.00+tax(if applicable)+shipping."
Considering that the printer was just a few months old, I thought they would replace it under warranty.

Anyway...
After much digging and phone calls I have the solution.
I have the original heater (new upgraded version) and good quality (Borofloat) borosilicate glass for the Da Vinci. I went with the 2.75mm thickness as that matches the original.
So it's a plug and play solution.
Just disconnect the heater at the back, pull the wires out, unscrew the brackets holding the old bed, drop in the new bed, attach the bracket, route and connect the wires and calibrate. Viola!

If you're interested I have about 18 sets left.
I'm asking $45 for the glass and heater unassembled or $50 for the assembled version.
Plus shipping of course.

I have thoroughly tested them and found that the new heater is a little faster to heat up and parts pop off the glass much better than the original glass.

If this post is inappropriate, let me know and I'll remove it.

James

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2 Reply by KevinME

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

If you don't mind me asking, where did you purchase the heater from?

3 Reply by AndrewMast

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

Thanks for posting this! If anything happens to my heating bed, I will definitely buy from you.

-Andrew

Da Vinci 1.0 + Simplify3D for Mac

4 Reply by jdholbrook33 (edited by jdholbrook33 2015-02-02 12:48:14)

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

I ordered the heaters from the original equipment manufacturer.
I can sell the heater for $30 plus shipping.
A little expensive in my book but it fits perfectly, has the proper wattage and wire connections.
By the time I paid for the heaters, bank transfer funds and shipping, the final price was shocking. Especially after looking at heaters for the other printers.
Prices quoted from suppliers here in the US were also shocking. The only thing that came close was a quote for heaters made of silicone, not sure how they would work. If they were too thick it would mean modifying the printer and I wanted to stay away from that.
So I stuck with the original equipment. Glad I did, they fit and work perfectly.

The glass is about normal price at $20. I found it cheaper from China but decided on the Borofloat brand from a US supplier as they are high quality and made in Germany. I am very happy with the glass. They are tough and flat.

A word of warning. The adhesive is very strong. If you make a mistake applying it, you may not be able to correct it. Also, it is impossible to get the heater to be flat on the glass. The heater is not flat and it doesn't stretch so there will always be a few little ripples. Nothing I tried would eliminate them so don't stress on trying to eliminate them. They are present in the stock heated bed too.
I built a vacuum table to hold the heater flat and in alignment then apply the glass to the heater using a jig to get them aligned perfectly.

If you need the heater or glass separate, just let me know.

Thanks

James

5 Reply by iacopo

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

Looks good to me, and it's probably worth the price considering the time it would cost me trying to make one myself.
How much would shipping be to Italy?

6 Reply by r3450nz

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

Can't help but think the scarcity of these parts was meant to course users into buying a second printer out of desperation. Xyz Store is forever out of stock.
Ordered 2, thank you smile Will post back.

7 Reply by jdholbrook33

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

iacopo wrote:

Looks good to me, and it's probably worth the price considering the time it would cost me trying to make one myself.
How much would shipping be to Italy?

I sent you a PM with the prices I found for shipping.
If you are interested, I'll work with you to try and get the shipping price as low as we can find.

Thanks

James

8 Reply by jdholbrook33

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

r3450nz wrote:

Can't help but think the scarcity of these parts was meant to course users into buying a second printer out of desperation. Xyz Store is forever out of stock.
Ordered 2, thank you smile Will post back.

I shipped your 2 out yesterday (2-2-2015)
Hopefully you'll have them by the end of the week.
I put both in the same box and will refund you the shipping on one of them.

Let me know how they work for you.

Thanks

James

9 Reply by xairflyer (edited by xairflyer 2015-02-03 22:19:30)

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

I found a piece of glass out of my bed tonight still stuck to the part??  I would like to get one of these from you also if I have no luck locating one in europe, in next day or so.

10 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

Im wondering how this glass is getting broken. I have had my 1.0 for months now with no chips or cracks. I have hundreds of hours on it, and several 20+ hour prints on it. I have yet to see any chips or breaks. Are you guys letting it fully cool to room temp through the entire model before temoving? I have never had to use force on any print. Once cooled they literally slide off the platform.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

11 Reply by jdholbrook33

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

Xairflyer,

Both of my beds did the same thing. Once it started, I got flakes of glass on each print, even the small ones. Before long the glass actually cracked into two pieces.

The good thing about the Borosilicate glass is that it does not develop internal stress and will not flake off or crack.
I'll be happy to help you get one to Europe.

Thanks,

James

12 Reply by r3450nz

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

jdholbrook33,
Thanks again.

Received them today, installed the one. Fits perfect, like you said exact replacement. After the install I ran auto calibrate and got success at 340 on the first try with no adjustments. I couldn't be happier with this thank you.

13 Reply by thecure

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

I'm interested in the glass/heater combination for the Duo.
I suppose you wouldnt have that size?

14 Reply by jdholbrook33

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

r3450nz wrote:

jdholbrook33,
Thanks again.

Received them today, installed the one. Fits perfect, like you said exact replacement. After the install I ran auto calibrate and got success at 340 on the first try with no adjustments. I couldn't be happier with this thank you.

I'm glad they worked out for you.
Thanks for the kind words.

James

15 Reply by jdholbrook33

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

thecure wrote:

I'm interested in the glass/heater combination for the Duo.
I suppose you wouldnt have that size?

Can you measure your glass?
Just need the width and length.

My glass is 8.2 x 8.2 inches +/- 1/32"

If you order it and it doesn't fit, I'll take it back and refund your money. Minus shipping one way.

Regards,

James

16 Reply by thecure (edited by thecure 2015-02-06 16:48:37)

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

It's exactly 160mm x 210mm.
i have a brand new uninstalled heater/glass assembly.  is difficult to remove the heater element, and re-apply to your glass?

Edit: changed cm to mm.  kids were hopping on me, distracting me at time of post

17 Reply by jdholbrook33

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

thecure wrote:

It's exactly 160cm x 210cm.
i have a brand new uninstalled heater/glass assembly.  is difficult to remove the heater element, and re-apply to your glass?

That sounds much smaller than my glass at 210 x 210mm so it seems that the Duo glass is smaller.
You could have it cut but the heater can not be cut and it would be too big.
Cutting glass is not hard but borosilicate glass is stronger and harder to cut. I tried, even with a diamond cutter.

The adhesive used on the heaters is very strong.
I won't say it can't be removed but it will be difficult.
I can remove it as long as I don't press it down. Once I press it down. Forget it.

James

18 Reply by DrAnonymous

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

Would you mind taking a picture of the front edge of your bed? The one you posted before is not clear on the front edge and I'd like to see how it compares to my current bed.

Also, why does the heater need to be glued to the glass? Isn't there enough even contact when its held in place with the metal clips at the corners?

19 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

DrAnonymous wrote:

Would you mind taking a picture of the front edge of your bed? The one you posted before is not clear on the front edge and I'd like to see how it compares to my current bed.

Also, why does the heater need to be glued to the glass? Isn't there enough even contact when its held in place with the metal clips at the corners?


The heater is a very thin, I mean paper thin flexible circuit board. There is also about a quarter inch of hollow space under the glass. That is why they glued it. My glass warps in the middle, rises in the middle and drops on the right and left edges. It also now has one of those small about 1/8 inch chips in it.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

20 Reply by DrAnonymous (edited by DrAnonymous 2015-02-07 05:16:32)

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

I'm confused.
My bed has no hollow space below it. It has the black bed, then some thick material, then the glass. I have a 1.0 model I got in Dec. When assembled, there would be no movement of the heater. The only thing might be where the leads connect to the heater, since the leads off of it could flex, which might end up being a problem.

Seems like they should have fastened the cable assembly to the bed frame, rather than have it just hang loosely in cable wrap, to make things better long term.

21 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

DrAnonymous wrote:

I'm confused. My bed has no hollow space below it. It has the black bed, then some thick material, then the glass. I have a 1.0 model I got in Dec.


Well maybe they changed something mid flow has a gap in the middle if you remove the heat blanket you can see it under there and mine is one of the second version of the 1.0 meaning I have the erase jumper missing but the stepper drivers are in sockets. Maybe since mine is the second generation they changed something. There are corners that support the glass and a cross section of about 1 mm wide dividing the frame into quarters but the rest of the area under there has space between the bed and base.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

22 Reply by DrAnonymous

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

Here's pics of my bed for reference.

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23 Reply by jdholbrook33

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

Gluing the heater to the glass also assures even heating of the glass.
Also, since the heater is so thin, it would develop a hot spot very quickly if there was nothing to conduct the heat away from the copper traces.

I too noticed the free hanging wires of the thermistor and heater supply. During assembly of my Da Vinci I kept looking for something to tie wrap the cables to the Z frame. Seems the wire bundle is only supported by the connection to the printed circuit heater.
My cable hits the cleaner box on the way up and down. The connector for the thermistor is going to catch on that tray I'm sure of it.
May be worth it to drill a hole in the webbing of the z axis frame and tie wrap the cable bundle out of harms way and supported.
I'll look in to that this weekend.

One thing we have to remember is that the Da Vinci was designed to a price point and a low one at that.

I'll be happy to make a photo of the front of the bed.

James

24 Reply by leenanj (edited by leenanj 2015-02-08 17:11:07)

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

I have been using your heater/glass now for a couple of days and all I can say is fantastic?

The borosilicate glass you are using is the only way to go.

No warping, easy to calibrate, even heat.

What blew me away was the calibration even stays the same at the different temperatures between ABS and PLA.
Something the stock glass could never do.

Thanks for the fine product.

PS: Now you need to put together a upgrade hot end kit. lol

25 Reply by jdholbrook33

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Re: Da Vinci borosilicate glass with heater

Thanks for the kind words.
Means a lot to me.

Actually I'm working on a new style of hot end. Something that will concentrate the heat where it's needed. Right at the junction of the metal and plastic. Fast response with minimal heat propagation up the path.
It's radical but I think it will perform much better.
One problem I found is that the present processors can't handle the PID loop if the heater responds quickly so that will be a big hurdle if I have to keep the existing processors. Maybe something like the Smoothieboard could handle it but nothing in the RAMPS will.
anyway.. that's for another post.

Thanks again for the kind words.

James