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Topic: Odd circle test results

Soliforum,

I've done calibration after calibration on the x and y axis and, using my digital ruler at 2 decimal places of significant digits, I cannot seem to break this problem.  All my circles come out with this odd flat side.  I'm now wondering if this is something else, maybe hardware related. 

As apposed to when I first received my SD4, there are no grinding on any axis and I've tensioned each belt using the audible tuning guides.  Everything is lubricated and appears to move smoothly as the printer is moving on it's axis.

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2 (edited by jagowilson 2014-11-02 16:24:41)

Re: Odd circle test results

Please see this thread. You are not alone.
http://www.soliforum.com/topic/7990/con … ensioning/. I seem to be the only user with this issue that has solved it so far, by upgrading the motherboard.

Do your lights inside the printer dim during prints? Please contribute to the thread I linked to so we can keep this issue all in one place.

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Re: Odd circle test results

You seem to have the same problem I did but I don't experience dimming of lights in the SD4 during prints.

What do you mean by upgrading the motherboard?  Firmware or replacing the whole board?  If it's a mobo replacement, I'll just contact Solidoodle support.

4 (edited by jagowilson 2014-11-02 18:55:11)

Re: Odd circle test results

I upgraded to an entirely different board. I'm not confident the motherboard is your issue so don't jump the gun.

Read the thread I linked to. It's filled with suggestions about how you can calibrate your printer. Start there. When did you purchase your printer by the way? Just curious.

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Re: Odd circle test results

I got it as a birthday gift in early October.  Parents ordered it and arrived a few weeks before so it's not that old.

Using the steps you've linked, by simply adjusting BOTH x and y axis to the same tension, my problem is almost gone. I can still feel the flat area so I'm not done yet.

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6 (edited by jagowilson 2014-11-02 19:34:26)

Re: Odd circle test results

Nice work! Glad it ended up being that simple for you smile not all of us were so fortunate. However, do keep us informed on if you remove the last little bit of flatness there.

You might also calibrate your extruder steps per mm and extrusion multiplier. Looks like you might be over-extruding a bit.

7 (edited by jaques 2014-11-02 20:19:03)

Re: Odd circle test results

I'm sorry to say this, but it still doesn't look like a good circle to me anyway.
Are your photos rotated by any chance, the rough edges should have been at 5 oclock and 11 oclock.

I've attached an STL file with 1 layer thick and high circles that takes few seconds to print. Try it, take a photo from top and it will be easiest to tell how your circles look now.

nbourg8 wrote:

I don't experience dimming of lights in the SD4 during prints.

Are you sure? it doesnt dim noticeably when printing. It dims when you turn on the heaters. You may also notice the fans slowing down when you turn the heaters on. This shouldn't happen spontaneously, about a second later.
For me the lights slightly flicker when printing while the heaters are on as well.

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8

Re: Odd circle test results

this topic dont say what model but the linked one states SD4 so is this only an SD4 issue? as I own one of the first SD2 and dont have near as many issues as the SD4 seems to.

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

9 (edited by jagowilson 2014-11-02 20:38:19)

Re: Odd circle test results

If this ends up being an SD4 design issue I want a free workbench or press tongue but my printer is now better than anything they've got for sale anyway.

And I agree. Your circles look about the same as Jaques's right now, so please let us know if you make any progress towards improvement.

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Re: Odd circle test results

I think by law you can demand a refund. I personally won't be okay even if offered a new motherboard. No guarantee that will be any better and the shipping time outside of US takes forever and I doubt Solidoodle will pay for the customs payments. This is what cipher0 told me anyway.

Anyway, back to topic, nbourg8 please print the test STL Ive uploaded as suggested already and take photo. No side shot please, a top-down shot of the print.

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Re: Odd circle test results

In the U.S. you aren't really protected that well. I got it on my AMEX business card, so I could've returned it if I wanted to, but I'm happy just upgrading the parts until it's a good printer. I mean, let's face it, the Solidoodle is the cheapest way to get prints that look like they came out of a $30,000 printer; you just substitute all that cash for frustration, time and learning.

12 (edited by nbourg8 2014-11-03 02:29:51)

Re: Odd circle test results

Okay, I'm finally home from doing chores at the in-law's house.  Attached is the circle.stl file printout as per requested.  I still see the problem as well.

Edit: upon inspection after posting the images, they are rotated 90 degrees counter-clockwise.  Please remember to flip them clockwise 90 degrees for orientation purposes with the SD4

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13 (edited by jaques 2014-11-03 04:10:13)

Re: Odd circle test results

Okay, your circles have the same problem as mine. They are skewed along the x axis. And there are dents at around 5 oclock and 11 oclock.
Were tryingto find out the cause of this right now.

You forgot to mention if you get slight light dimming and fan slowdown when turning the heaters on.

14 (edited by jagowilson 2014-11-03 04:21:32)

Re: Odd circle test results

I keep meaning to post that same calibration on my printer. Been fighting Y axis shift caused by my janky wiring tangling up. Finally fixed it. Printing some parts for my printer and going to bed but I'll post them tomorrow, just for 100% verification mine are fixed.

I still have Y backlash I can't resolve, but I'm upgrading the bushings and replacing the stock pillow with one using the 6x13x5mm flanged bearings. Hopefully this resolves my backlash but if not, well, time for fishing line after these fixes and a few other things. I'm also looking for a good vendor to replace the Y motor in the back.

15 (edited by nbourg8 2014-11-03 04:21:57)

Re: Odd circle test results

jagowilson wrote:

I keep meaning to post that same calibration on my printer. Been fighting Y axis shift caused by my janky wiring tangling up. Finally fixed it. Printing some parts for my printer and going to bed but I'll post them tomorrow, just for 100% verification mine are fixed.

My apologizes.  I did see the dimming and audibly heard the fans slow down when I manually turn on/off the heaters.  I had to turn on the bed and the extruder heaters at the same time to witness these symptoms.  I had to turn out the lights in my apartment to see the light flicker (only happened once) but the fans definitely slowed down during heating.

Seems I'm exactly the same problem as you guys.

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Re: Odd circle test results

jagowilson wrote:

I keep meaning to post that same calibration on my printer. Been fighting Y axis shift caused by my janky wiring tangling up. Finally fixed it. Printing some parts for my printer and going to bed but I'll post them tomorrow, just for 100% verification mine are fixed.

I still have Y backlash I can't resolve, but I'm upgrading the bushings and replacing the stock pillow with one using the 6x13x5mm flanged bearings. Hopefully this resolves my backlash but if not, well, time for fishing line after these fixes and a few other things. I'm also looking for a good vendor to replace the Y motor in the back.

Good Luck!  Looking forward to your results.

I believe sparkfun.com has replacement stepper motors almost identical to the steppers of the printer.  Maybe start there.  I've been reading about backlash and even saw your solution of 6x13x5mm flanged bearings.  If this works for you, I'll give it a shot too.

17 (edited by jagowilson 2014-11-03 04:28:33)

Re: Odd circle test results

Not my solution smile the original thread is here though: http://www.soliforum.com/topic/4824/how … -for-ever/

I'll take a look at sparkfun and see what I can find. My printer is definitely not perfect yet, but I seem to have no problem with circles right now. Just Y backlash making my corners look like crap. I've accepted that I'm not going to get anywhere without upgrades, so that's the route i'm taking.

18 (edited by jagowilson 2014-11-03 05:02:16)

Re: Odd circle test results

Changed my mind. Here are my circles. I'm having a difficult time telling. What do you folks think?

They look fine to me. Fundamental difference between my printer and yours is the motherboard and power supply.

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19 (edited by jaques 2014-11-03 05:09:27)

Re: Odd circle test results

nbourg8 wrote:

Seems I'm exactly the same problem as you guys.

Yep.
And sorry to say this but I havent found a solution yet myself after weeks.
This is what I've tried and already excluded from list of possibilities.

1) adjusting z offset, bed leveling, extrusion, xy belt calibration (the wiki stuff)
2) re-greasing the rods
3) checking for misaligned pulleys/belts
4) making sure belt tighteness too tight/loose/not the same on left and right y belts
5) stepper motor voltage adjustments (VREF)
6) updating the PSU to add few more Amps because the printer doesnt seem to be getting enough power (light dimming/flickering, fan slowdown) - didnt fix those issues
7) removing the backy rod bushing (the thing on the right to the left side pulleys adding strength to the rod) and checking if it changes anything

What I'm doing now:
Since all of our printers seem to have been bought at around the same time (September), I suspect there's something wrong with our batch. jagowilson thinks its hardware related (motherboard), I hope it is a firmware issue instead.
So right now Im trying to reflash the motherboard.

If you have other ideas, let us know.

20 (edited by jaques 2014-11-03 05:14:06)

Re: Odd circle test results

jagowilson wrote:

Changed my mind. Here are my circles. I'm having a difficult time telling. What do you folks think?

Hard to tell for me too, but only because its a slightly angled shot, try to shoot a photo facing directly down on the bed.

BTW for both of you layer starts printing on the very left side of the object, for me it starts slightly lower. Whats up with that?

21 (edited by jagowilson 2014-11-03 05:14:08)

Re: Odd circle test results

I held them up to the light and had my buddy who is also here look at them. He wasn't able to spot any defects. If you're having a hard time telling, then I'm convinced they're fine. Printing a nickel test now as well, stand by.

He looked at them on the bed and by holding the sheet of glass up to a light.

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Re: Odd circle test results

jagowilson wrote:

I held them up to the light and had my buddy who is also here look at them. He wasn't able to spot any defects. If you're having a hard time telling, then I'm convinced they're fine.

I'd still like you to make a top-don photo of my circles.I've also had others to tell their opinion on how the circles looked and they said it was fine, but you know it wasn't. Its less noticeable on larger circles.
I think this test STL will show the problem more clearly, but if you want to print a nickel, go for it. Will be harder to tell though for me at least.

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Re: Odd circle test results

Yeah I forgot that the nickel test has a low polygon count so it isn't a good test with my microstepping. I'll print another one of yours and post a better pic. Just waiting for the bed to heat up a bit. Stand by

24 (edited by cipher0 2014-11-03 05:41:43)

Re: Odd circle test results

jagowilson wrote:

They look fine to me. Fundamental difference between my printer and yours is the motherboard and power supply.

*and firmware.
We're not being optimistic hoping it's a software issue which is "easier" to fix.
Thing is Solidoodle doesn't just compile the Marlin firmware like we do, I know for a fact that at least they messed with the strings in the code so my printer and jaques's has different printer name.
When you got the Rumba, even if you didn't change the Config.h to make the firmware for the Rumba explicitly, you might still have a slightly different firmware settings than Solidoodle's (ours,because we haven't changed it frm the factory).
I'm sadly too busy these days to actually try it out myself.

There's also the possibility that you adjusted the pulleys and belts better than we did. I think this is unlikely as it doesn't seem to require special skills so some will be better at it than others.But still a possibility nonetheless.
BTW, the thread you linked to seems to be a solution for elongated or squished circles along the Y plane, not "skewed" along the X which is what we are experiencing, right?

25 (edited by jagowilson 2014-11-03 06:01:28)

Re: Odd circle test results

Glad you had me check again! Indeed, I believe I am not 100% perfect! Good enough that I can print circles in real prints without issue, but I do still see some error.

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