1 (edited by adrian 2013-12-11 10:15:01)

Topic: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

So I know people occasionally seem to get bogged down about circles, and getting them right. There is often some jiggling and fidgeting around with everything repeatedly and often a lot of concern about having belt tension even.

Belt tension is very important for the OEM carriages, as they have delrin/acetal blocks that need to slide pretty evenly with the bronzed bushings to ensure the whole arrangement.. well.. keeps sliding wink

There is one place on the Solidoodle Belt Tension *does* directly effect circles on a OEM machine.. Its the continous belt connecting the Y-motor to the link rod (vertical belt in the pic below). There is a tendency to want to crank this motor tight to eliminate backlash, however this has a counter effect - it causes the 6mm link-rod to deflect due to the tension on the loop belt and even a small deflection will result in uneven timing between the axis and elongated (or contracted) geometry in the print as a result.

But fear not! There is a simple "do this once and forget about circles and pretty much belt tension forever" fix!

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HOhwr3OlsLo/Uqg0uBYYHrI/AAAAAAAAJ5Y/6Lhyu_cMd0A/w1172-h659-no/20131211_204652.jpg

I've been running this mod since April when Smitty505000 posted it into his thread about all-bearing conversion : http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2361/all … onversion/ . In there you will find this post which contains an STL.  Download this and print it. While printing, go to ebay, and purchase a batch of 6x13x5 flanged bearings.  Upon recieving the bearings, insert them into the pillow block, detach one end of the link rod after loosening the grub screws on the pulleys, remove a pulley and slide on the pillow block. Replace pulley, and then locate the pillow block and attach to case rear.  Snick everything up time and your done. For good. Seriously.

You can crank your Y-Motor as tight as you can get without distorting the frame, and can print with belt tension thats as uneven as this: (note the now long unused 'coin calibrator' compliments of IanJohnson):
Left
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8-G8b-up_aQ/Uqg1YlEeT8I/AAAAAAAAJ6I/KC3KXprn4nU/w1172-h659-no/20131211_204909.jpg

Right
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-qfwT-Rfp3tM/Uqg1ealUHTI/AAAAAAAAJ6U/pZ1jK4Fc57A/w1172-h659-no/20131211_204927.jpg

And get perfect circles again and again - this is the weekends test prints of trying out some things elsewhere on the printer:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6m9TM5rfmOw/Uqg0gS7vUaI/AAAAAAAAJ6g/TN-Y69LwD7Y/w1172-h659-no/20131211_204529.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OuV9GE0fPDs/Uqg0OA6RvcI/AAAAAAAAJ40/-bdc87uheL8/w440-h782-no/20131211_204449.jpg

I havent adjusted belts since I installed my bearings for the lawsy carriages...

If you like this mod as much as I do - buy Smitty505000 a virtual beer for making the STL for us! smile

2

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

Thanks for the tip!

SD2 - Glass Bed, Fans on PCB and Y motor, Custom enclosure
Slicer - Simplify3D

3

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

That's a lot simpler than trying to replace the bushings at each end with a bearing, and has the same effect.  I had wanted to change the bushings because it seemed like so much tension pulling the rod down on the bushing and forward at the same time made it harder to turn and contributed to Y skipping by the time you dialed out the backlash.

4

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

Any tips on getting the stuck pulleys off the rod? When I was messing with the circle calibration I noticed that the set screws probably marred the rod where moving the pulleys was quite difficult.

5

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

muddtt wrote:

Any tips on getting the stuck pulleys off the rod? When I was messing with the circle calibration I noticed that the set screws probably marred the rod where moving the pulleys was quite difficult.

I just replaced my pulleys with metal ones and ran into the same issue. Hate to say it but BFI (Brute Force and Ignorance) worked well. I just pulled the rod out from on side slamming the stuck pulleys into the bushing. (I had flange bearings on stand by just in case)

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

6

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

very interesting, I saw that device somewhere... but on SD3 frame there are no holes in that position, guess I have to drill it... I already did it with the dremel, but I was a bit scared because drilling in the metal slowed down the dremel considerably and I was afraid of getting it stuck or out of control...

7

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

What's the trick to getting the pillow block, with bearings, onto the rod? Sand the rod? Dremel the bearings? Heat the bearings?

8 (edited by ronsii 2014-01-01 04:16:50)

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

FatalDischarge wrote:

What's the trick to getting the pillow block, with bearings, onto the rod? Sand the rod? Dremel the bearings? Heat the bearings?

No trick... they should just slide on, some may be tighter than others...and heat is your friend also make sure the ends are not burred.

9

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

how did you go about attaching the pillow block to the back of the case?

10

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

^^ In Adrian's pic it looks like he just used some small bolts and nuts, I wouldn't recommend anything like glue for this purpose you need a structural mount.

11

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

Thanks, I guess that was a stupid question

12

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

i think im adding this to the to do list! the bushings can be replaced by the same bearings that the pillow block uses correct?

13

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

got a link to metal pulley's so i don't have to buy a complete replacement pack from solidoodle?

Overkill is underrated!!!

14

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

Thanks to smitty505000 for the great idea. Those bearings weren't readily available locally so i used some 626Z bearings.
I remade this in DesignaSpark Mechanical to fit the larger OD bearings.
If anybody wants the stl i am happy to give it. i was going to load it on this message but didn't get that figured out yet.
http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz239/MY3DPH/IMG_20140122_155433_zpsa561d16d.jpg http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz239/MY3DPH/IMG_20140122_155433_zpsa561d16d.jpg

15

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

So.... does this mod really end all circle problems?

16

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

If adrian said it's true, its a pretty good bet.

17

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

My Y rod (the one in the top rear of the case) has an approximately .3mm wobble in it.  Is this significant enough to be causing my circle problems?  (I've checked belt tension, etc.)

I'm thinking about doing this mod anyway...I've already ordered the bearings.

18

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

I got a pack of sd3 bearings as extras, can I use one of those with this mod?

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

19 (edited by adrian 2014-01-28 08:02:57)

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

MeshMoth wrote:

So.... does this mod really end all circle problems?

Well, I'd have anticipated further feedback from the wider audience by now, but from my perspective, as stated, I haven't had a circle problem despite wickedly asymmetric belt tensions since early last year.... and I print everyday pretty much.  Those that I know that have also done it have also never mentioned a circle problem, so one can only presume...  Maybe someone else can offer feedback smile

Photog wrote:

I got a pack of sd3 bearings as extras, can I use one of those with this mod?

Not sure what you mean, as the SD3 doesn't have bearings. Closest it has is self-aligning sintered bronze bushings.

These are not particularly adequate for the application at hand (as they will incur drag on the rod and their casing as they self-align" - the point here is to hold the rod rigid with support just like a linear block does... ) , so I would recommend springing the $5 and getting the ones stated - otherwise YMMV on if it helps or hinders......

20

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

adrian wrote:
MeshMoth wrote:

So.... does this mod really end all circle problems?

Well, I'd have anticipated further feedback from the wider audience by now, but from my perspective, as stated, I haven't had a circle problem despite wickedly asymmetric belt tensions since early last year.... and I print everyday pretty much.  Those that I know that have also done it have also never mentioned a circle problem, so one can only presume...  Maybe someone else can offer feedback smile

Photog wrote:

I got a pack of sd3 bearings as extras, can I use one of those with this mod?

Not sure what you mean, as the SD3 doesn't have bearings. Closest it has is self-aligning sintered bronze bushings.

These are not particularly adequate for the application at hand (as they will incur drag on the rod and their casing as they self-align" - the point here is to hold the rod rigid with support just like a linear block does... ) , so I would recommend springing the $5 and getting the ones stated - otherwise YMMV on if it helps or hinders......

Sorry, I meant the pulleys. I got the pulley pack which is $40 cause I lost one of the grub screws on my pulley on the y rod so now i have 5 extra pulleys

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

21

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

Adrian I will try this mod and give feedback.

My problem is I tried the true circle re alignment video but my pulleys won't slide freely on the y drive rod when loosened, they like dug into the rod or something. So now after y rod calibration i think my y axis is worse than before. Can't get the dang rod to stay center when sliding the carriages because the pulleys will only go an inch on the Rod before catching and scraping. I have a new y rod on the way. Until then I will try this mod out.

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

22

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

Photog wrote:

Adrian I will try this mod and give feedback.

My problem is I tried the true circle re alignment video but my pulleys won't slide freely on the y drive rod when loosened, they like dug into the rod or something. So now after y rod calibration i think my y axis is worse than before. Can't get the dang rod to stay center when sliding the carriages because the pulleys will only go an inch on the Rod before catching and scraping. I have a new y rod on the way. Until then I will try this mod out.

it'll be because when the hard steel set screw is screwed in tight, it will bur the rod and cause that issue - most likely when they tightened it up at the factory... a solid sidewards whack will get them off the burred bit..

You can also use a center punch on the end of the rod and tap lightly with a hammer, and then a good whack from inside the frame should get it all loose. Idea is to use the frame to pull them off as you push the rod out..

23 (edited by RTRyder 2014-01-28 15:56:11)

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

I did a similar mod but used two bearing supports rather than one. Main reason I did it was the 6mm shaft was not straight and sliding around in the bushings pretty much assured I was never going to get truly round prints off the machine. I forget exactly what I used for bearings but I believe they were Align mainshaft bearings from a Trex 500 or 550 RC helicopter, readily available at the local hobby shop. A few minutes in Sketchup to create the necessary blocks, quick print, then disassemble and install.

As part of the upgrade I also did the conversion to 16 tooth GT2 pulleys and belts on both X and Y axis. Put it all back together and did the necessary adjustments and calibrations, haven't touched it since (close to 2 months now) and still getting flawless prints with nice round circles.

I use this printer a LOT, right now it is nearing the end of printing a full set of plastic parts to enlarge my 3DR delta printer, the SD3 has been running nearly nonstop for over 2 days now and all I do is swap the filament roll when needed.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab71/NeanderthalRC/AP%20pictures/IMG_3012a_zps8f046fb2-1.jpg

24

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

adrian wrote:
Photog wrote:

Adrian I will try this mod and give feedback.

My problem is I tried the true circle re alignment video but my pulleys won't slide freely on the y drive rod when loosened, they like dug into the rod or something. So now after y rod calibration i think my y axis is worse than before. Can't get the dang rod to stay center when sliding the carriages because the pulleys will only go an inch on the Rod before catching and scraping. I have a new y rod on the way. Until then I will try this mod out.

it'll be because when the hard steel set screw is screwed in tight, it will bur the rod and cause that issue - most likely when they tightened it up at the factory... a solid sidewards whack will get them off the burred bit..

You can also use a center punch on the end of the rod and tap lightly with a hammer, and then a good whack from inside the frame should get it all loose. Idea is to use the frame to pull them off as you push the rod out..

Oh I can get them off, the problem is they don't slide easily and catch on the rod so I can't do the "true circle alignment" like in the video because they don't slide back and forth easily on the rod when I rock the carriages back and forth. When you rock the carriages back and forth the pulleys are supposed to slide into a place on the rod they like, but because of the burrs they cannot go far enough where they want to be.

I could sand the rod down but worried I would make it uneven.. I figured for $9 just buy a new rod.

My SD3:  Clear plexiglass case, case heater, X axis stabilizer, Z axis stabilizer, thumb screws, filament guide, heatsinks on all motors, extruder fan, controller fan, heatsinks on motherboard, Y rod pillow block, USB and Power on/off switch, fully calibrated including trimpot tuning. Am I missing anything?

25 (edited by RTRyder 2014-01-28 16:09:11)

Re: How to forget about circle problems for ever....

Photog wrote:
adrian wrote:
Photog wrote:

Adrian I will try this mod and give feedback.

My problem is I tried the true circle re alignment video but my pulleys won't slide freely on the y drive rod when loosened, they like dug into the rod or something. So now after y rod calibration i think my y axis is worse than before. Can't get the dang rod to stay center when sliding the carriages because the pulleys will only go an inch on the Rod before catching and scraping. I have a new y rod on the way. Until then I will try this mod out.

it'll be because when the hard steel set screw is screwed in tight, it will bur the rod and cause that issue - most likely when they tightened it up at the factory... a solid sidewards whack will get them off the burred bit..

You can also use a center punch on the end of the rod and tap lightly with a hammer, and then a good whack from inside the frame should get it all loose. Idea is to use the frame to pull them off as you push the rod out..

Oh I can get them off, the problem is they don't slide easily and catch on the rod so I can't do the "true circle alignment" like in the video because they don't slide back and forth easily on the rod when I rock the carriages back and forth. When you rock the carriages back and forth the pulleys are supposed to slide into a place on the rod they like, but because of the burrs they cannot go far enough where they want to be.

I could sand the rod down but worried I would make it uneven.. I figured for $9 just buy a new rod.

I had the same problem, just find the gouge the set screw(s) made and give it a light cleanup with a fine file, it won't take off nearly enough material to make a difference in the rod straightness or diameter.