1

Topic: Replacement hot end

Going on from this thread:

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/441/heater-resistance/

I'd like to know peoples opinions on the best/easiest upgrade for the hot end.

I had my second blockage but when I tried to pull it apart to do the blow torch trick (which worked great the first time), the ceramic around the nichochrome wire had fractured and gone everywhere. Furthermore, Ibecause I can't get this off, the clog remains and my printer is rendered useless.

I think a hot end that has a metal block where the heating resistor sits inside along with the thermistor is ideal, as the brass tube and nozzle can be taken on and off without any risk of damage:

http://www.qu-bd.com/images/mbeassembly/P1120008.jpg

One other frustration is that the peek insulator is round and has nothing to stop it spinning when taking off the nozzle. I've filed two flat sides on my peek barrel so a spanner can stop this. Ideally, I'd like to be able to remove and clean the nozzle for cleaning without disassembling anything else.

At the moment I'm looking at this combo:

Apart from wiring up times four, as far as I can tell the brass barrel just needs to be cut down to the right length.

Thoughts?

2

Re: Replacement hot end

I think it should work and replacement for hot-head is on top of my list as well while things are working and I can print out the holder.

3

Re: Replacement hot end

That gets around the problem of the heat core.  You would probably be running at 230C due to the placement of the thermistor.

It's more expensive, but if you are upgrading the hot end, you might consider something like the Arcol-
http://reprap.org/mediawiki/images/thumb/4/4d/Arcol_hu_v4_done.jpg/500px-Arcol_hu_v4_done.jpg

http://reprap.org/wiki/Arcol.hu_Hot-End_Version_4
https://xyzprinters.com/extruders-hot-e … hydra.html

It's all metal, no PEEK to worry about melting.

4

Re: Replacement hot end

Do you have any idea what the exterior temp will be on the nozzle then?  Will the jigsaw replacement or the original acrylic jigsaw mount be able to handle those exterior temps?

5

Re: Replacement hot end

I've just measured the PEEK barrel at 120 C when the tip is set to 200. I will carefully monitor the temp whn the new parts arrive.

Hopefully with what I've purchased, I can do a straight swap with no modification required. I'm planning to just screw my new assembly into the old PEEK barrel.

6 (edited by lawsy 2012-11-13 07:38:13)

Re: Replacement hot end

New hot end is in with not much fuss.

  • Aluminium block needed shortening to avoid touching and melting the carriage.

  • Original thermistor was used (and fits nicely), avoiding firmware changes.

  • Wire soldered onto the two ends of the heating resistor, insulated with heat shrink and then pressed into the original plug.

Setting the temp to 200 degrees C has the PEEK barrel at 100 degrees C, 20 degrees cooler. I'm not sure whether the whole thing is cooler or the PEEK barrel is just cooler is this configuration.

Insulation still needed for the assembly.

Broke the extruder acrylic by accident so madly printing the replacement while it holds together.

Pics and guide to come.

7

Re: Replacement hot end

Well, I've just put my order in with BilbyCNC. Heres hoping I can get my printer working again hmm

8

Re: Replacement hot end

lawsy wrote:

New hot end is in with not much fuss.

  • Aluminium block needed shortening to avoid touching and melting the carriage.

  • Original thermistor was used (and fits nicely), avoiding firmware changes.

  • Wire soldered onto the two ends of the heating resistor, insulated with heat shrink and then pressed into the original plug.

Setting the temp to 200 degrees C has the PEEK barrel at 100 degrees C, 20 degrees cooler. I'm not sure whether the whole thing is cooler or the PEEK barrel is just cooler is this configuration.

Insulation still needed for the assembly.

Broke the extruder acrylic by accident so madly printing the replacement while it holds together.

Pics and guide to come.


I just want to let you guys know that we have the hot end gripes in mind, and we are working out new ideas.
That said, we would love to hear what you would say about a perfect hot end.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

9

Re: Replacement hot end

lawsy wrote:

[*]Aluminium block needed shortening to avoid touching and melting the carriage.[/*]

Can you take a picture? Sorry if I missed it elsewhere on the forum.

10 (edited by cephdon 2012-11-29 14:23:54)

Re: Replacement hot end

solidoodlesupport wrote:

I just want to let you guys know that we have the hot end gripes in mind, and we are working out new ideas.
That said, we would love to hear what you would say about a perfect hot end.

We had a similar hot end on the RepMan.. personally, I am not a fan of the nichrome and fire cement approach.  Sure, it is compact and all, but it is a bear to clean and fragile (as others here have noted).

What I personally like is the J-Head style (all one piece brass with resistor heater or cartridge heater) or the one from arcol.hu http://shop.arcol.hu/ with a nozzle that can be replaced independent of the heater.  This last one is very similar to how Lawsy rebuilt his (nozzle separate from heater).

The extruder design needs one additional thing, in my opinion (which isn't worth much at this point), and that is a means for "clipping in" the hot end.  By that I mean that I should not need to remove the motor and jigsaw (which I hope you replace with something like the designs showing up here) to get the hot end out and work on it.   In my mind I imagine something like a ZIF socket (not an actual zif socket for a chip...) at the top where you slide the hot end into place and then pull a tiny lever to close and fix the hot end in place.

As I rebuild my other printer, I will be designing something like that so that I can pull out and replace/clean the hot end easily.

/start off topic

I wonder why we don't yet have standardized connectors and methods for 3d printer parts like we do for PC's.... Every time someone wants to use a new Hot End they have to design and print and adapter, etc.  Seems so simple, but if we had standard connectors for motors, hot ends, heated beds, etc then we could stock parts that would work with many different printers. Competition could drive prices down and quality up. Standard hot end heights would make it easier to deal with all of these issues without always needing to level the bed.  Yeah.. I live in a fantasy world and yeah the motors / heaters / extruders are still evolving and designs are changing.  Still, if there were standards, then it seems like all of this would be easier.

/end off topic

11

Re: Replacement hot end

have you seen the hotend now available from Josef Prusa?

stainless steel design with alu resistor block.
no peek
no ptfe

allows temperatures to print the usual pla/abs.

but also because it has no peek parts, you can print peek with it.

12 (edited by elmoret 2012-11-29 21:43:59)

Re: Replacement hot end

Link?

Edit - found it:

http://prusanozzle.org/index.html

Won't work with the SD without significant modification (or using original PEEK). This one will, though: (But it, too needs SD peek)

http://store.qu-bd.com/product.php?id_product=22

13

Re: Replacement hot end

solidoodlesupport wrote:
lawsy wrote:

New hot end is in with not much fuss.

  • Aluminium block needed shortening to avoid touching and melting the carriage.

  • Original thermistor was used (and fits nicely), avoiding firmware changes.

  • Wire soldered onto the two ends of the heating resistor, insulated with heat shrink and then pressed into the original plug.

Setting the temp to 200 degrees C has the PEEK barrel at 100 degrees C, 20 degrees cooler. I'm not sure whether the whole thing is cooler or the PEEK barrel is just cooler is this configuration.

Insulation still needed for the assembly.

Broke the extruder acrylic by accident so madly printing the replacement while it holds together.

Pics and guide to come.


I just want to let you guys know that we have the hot end gripes in mind, and we are working out new ideas.
That said, we would love to hear what you would say about a perfect hot end.

Maybe look at the Ubis Hot End   
printrbot.com

•nichrome wire heater (super efficient)
•brass barrel
•peek plastic
•professionally tooled ceramic insulator

maybe what the SD needs a better ceramic insulator?

14

Re: Replacement hot end

PEEK is not the answer, in my opinion. I'd rather see a stainless insulator, but that's money ++.

15 (edited by driggers 2012-12-01 20:42:13)

Re: Replacement hot end

lawsy wrote:

New hot end is in with not much fuss.

Pics and guide to come.

I would love to see those pics and guide right about now smile.  I just broke my brass barrel (torqued the nozzle too much), and then shattered my ceramic heater core (touched it).  Thinking it's a good time to change the system smile

edit:  how did you shorten the aluminum block?  can you hand file it?

SD2 Sanguinololu 1.3a atmega1284p, wood platform, lawsy's carriages, braided fishing line, pallet wood overhead spool mount, carboard/magnet enclosure, glass bed, E3D v6, bed levelling knobs, extended z-stop, 25A DC-DC SSR for bed heater, everything fixed to the SD2 frame, marlin firmware with some adjustments and extra failsafes enabled.  I'll never give up on you, little printer that could(n't)!

16

Re: Replacement hot end

Guide has been up for  while: http://www.soliforum.com/topic/571/repl … end-guide/

I used a hacksaw and then a file, but aluminium is soft enough to just file if you prefer.

17

Re: Replacement hot end

elmoret wrote:

Link?
This one will, though: (But it, too needs SD peek)

http://store.qu-bd.com/product.php?id_product=22

http://store.qu-bd.com/img/p/22-74-large.jpg

Looks like that one will work with the peek from SD without needing the cutting and filing that Lawsy had to do. Just need to make sure the "short side" is on the side next to the carriage.  They informed me that it has a 0.35 nozzle and is ready for 1.75mm filament.

Based on current costs you could build a complete extruder hot end using SD peek ($27), this hot end ($17.50) + resistor ($0.99) + ceramic insulator ($0.99) for ~ $46.48 (no part number for the thermistor).  If you start with the SD peek and thermistor you already have, the upgrade would only cost you ~ $19.48.

I already ordered my J-Head, but I might just do the upgrade for my SD peek to see how it works plus have a spare on hand.

@Solidoodle : The above configuration is cheaper than the "Spare Parts" hot end offered on your site and has the benefit of not using fire cement and nichrome. You could offer something like this as an upgraded nozzle and charge about the same cost... Just saying...

18 (edited by NG 2012-12-02 00:19:39)

Re: Replacement hot end

You may not like it as well.  It takes longer to heat up with the resistor pkg.

btw: Makergear sells their hot end for 75.00.


also sold @ Ultimachine and some MG parts.

19

Re: Replacement hot end

Big recommendation on qu-bd.com. Shipped super fast, great quality machining on the block.

20

Re: Replacement hot end

NG wrote:

You may not like it as well.  It takes longer to heat up with the resistor pkg.

Well, I already wait something like 15 or 20 minutes (or atleast it feels like it) for the bed to heat up.  If it is taking that long, would just need to start them both heating at the same time rather than wait.  Plus, upgrading to a higher wattage heater is easier if I decide I need to upgrade later.

I have been thinking about doing that with the bed too... but I see that someone already has and the bed is still taking a while to heat.

21

Re: Replacement hot end

I ordered new parts from SD.  I'll focus on upgrading once the printer is working again.

SD2 Sanguinololu 1.3a atmega1284p, wood platform, lawsy's carriages, braided fishing line, pallet wood overhead spool mount, carboard/magnet enclosure, glass bed, E3D v6, bed levelling knobs, extended z-stop, 25A DC-DC SSR for bed heater, everything fixed to the SD2 frame, marlin firmware with some adjustments and extra failsafes enabled.  I'll never give up on you, little printer that could(n't)!

22

Re: Replacement hot end

Just saw this info from the MakerGear site.

Cotronics Resbond, which is what Makergear uses, according to the website.

Not sure if SD uses the same stuff?

23

Re: Replacement hot end

http://prusanozzle.org/index.html

24 (edited by cephdon 2012-12-06 15:09:55)

Re: Replacement hot end

I just got my J-Head in from hotends.com.  Quick and cheap shipping.
Before I switch this out, I will perform temperature measurements with the probe and ir gun to compare with readings on Repetier.  Then, once I have it switched, I will do the same measurements to see the differences.

Here is a comparison photo:
http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=549

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25

Re: Replacement hot end

cephdon wrote:

I just got my J-Head in from hotends.com.  Quick and cheap shipping.
Before I switch this out, I will perform temperature measurements with the probe and ir gun to compare with readings on Repetier.  Then, once I have it switched, I will do the same measurements to see the differences.

Here is a comparison photo:
http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=549

The J-Head guys are awesome. I believe they have a Solidoodle in house with the J head.

As a side note, Solidoodle will be releasing its own cartridge heater style head in the coming months.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.