Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues. (Page 1 of 9)

**diyengineer** · 2013-10-20 06:58:10

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Topic: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

Hello everyone, new to the community. I am a pretty active user over on cnczone.com, and now hope to be active on this forum also. Just purchased a solidoodle 3. I visited thingverse and have compiled a list of printable modifcations that everyone seem to rant and rave about. I printed a filiment spool funnel, so the filiment doesn't get jammed in the rubber ring grommet they use. that worked like a charm. I than noticed my wire bundle for the carriage was everywhere it shouldnt be, on the belts, on the rails, etc. So i found the awesome cable chain model, and began printing. I could never get the ABS to stick on the kapton tape, or blue painters table. It wouldn't even stick on bare glass. So I used the hairspray technique which seems to help a bit, but i can't print over 4-5 layers without it peeling at the corners and delamming from the surface, which is frustrating. I've seen my last option is to simply use "ABS Juice" which i believe is a mixture of acetone and abs plastic. Have yet to try that, but i can't believe it won't stick to a clean surface. The glass bed is as level as i can get it with a feeler gauge since i need to print out the dial indicator holder modification, but can't finish it due to the part breaking away from the plate half way in the build. I've verified my temps with the IR thermometer also. solidoodle seems to be special when it references its temps in the software repetier since everyone else seems to be using much higher reported temps. They suggest 195C for the extruder temp, and 95C for the bed temp. Ive used these and also have slowed down my first layer by 50% and the layer height also as some suggest. Haven't had much luck.

When you set the Z height do you set it touching the plate, or do you set it at .30MM above the glass. No one comes right out and says what the height should roughly be at, some say touch the plate, others use a business card.

I've made a enclosure for aluminum foil and tape for the time being. I ordered 5 pounds of PLA that i will convert to if i can't get this ABS to stick to ANYTHING!

I need to print the dial indicator holder to tram the glass, and the X/Y dial indicator holder to test the steps per travel, to make sure i am going the distance i intend to. one of my test circles was far from true.

So far, still a happy customer, just need to get over the learning hump.

**diyengineer** · 2013-10-20 07:06:55

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

Here are some of my completed prints. (when it seemed like it was sticking to 2 coats of hairspray and glass, plus stock settings just fine).

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**diyengineer** · 2013-10-20 07:09:08

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

Here are some while printing. The larger filiment funnel turned our just fine. The rest of the links for the cable chain, wont print above a few levels without the corners peeling up. Not sure i printed 17 others just fine, and now im having a hard time getting anything to stick.

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**diyengineer** · 2013-10-20 07:10:20

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

Here are some mods off thingverse i hope to print. If anyone sees anything i should add, let me know.

Also, please feel free to shoot me a message, or posts tips, tricks, etc.

Thanks!

**Gomisan** · 2013-10-20 07:44:18

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

Try upping those temps. 110 -155C for the bed, and give it time to get properly hot. 200C for ABS .. but test different temps with your filament, they can vary.

Instead of the cable chain, try the cable guide (sorry cant remember the model ID, probably in my Thingiverse collections though if you look me up) that slips onto the metal frame.

**diyengineer** · 2013-10-20 09:44:25

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

Gomisan wrote:

Try upping those temps. 110 -155C for the bed, and give it time to get properly hot. 200C for ABS .. but test different temps with your filament, they can vary.
Instead of the cable chain, try the cable guide (sorry cant remember the model ID, probably in my Thingiverse collections though if you look me up) that slips onto the metal frame.

I did see that and was unsure if that would work as well. I will give that a go tomorrow. I did not want to damage the bed or extruder with excessive temps, without hearing what other people have been getting away with.

thanks for the tips, i will upload some pics of that cable guide if i can get it to print tomorrow. that would atleast remove one of my issues a little faster haha.

**Hazer** · 2013-10-20 11:09:44

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

OK: Lifting from the surface, also called curling, is due to the print cooling off inside faster than the outside. You can raise your bed temp to help a little. But here is something I found that may also be your problem: Dont start the print until the bed has reached temp for at least 10 minutes. If you are using glass and hairspray, great. But remember, the sensor is underneath, not on the top. The glass needs time to soak the heat, otherwise your undertemp and your part will pop off.

If you are getting delamination (cracks mid-print) then there are two things to help: Enclosure (you said you already done) and increasing the extruder temp a little (try 200-205). As for the difference in temperatures, the sensor of the Solidoodle is taped to the outside of the heater block, so the actual temperature of the filament is roughly 30 degrees hotter than the reported temperature.

If you still have problems with curling or sticking, some other tips that help are:
-Dont use 100% infill.
-Use a brim.
-ABS slurry or Elmers glue stick.

If your circles are off, you need to do the Y and X belt tensioning calibration.

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**diyengineer** · 2013-10-20 13:42:11

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

Hazer wrote:

OK: Lifting from the surface, also called curling, is due to the print cooling off inside faster than the outside. You can raise your bed temp to help a little. But here is something I found that may also be your problem: Dont start the print until the bed has reached temp for at least 10 minutes. If you are using glass and hairspray, great. But remember, the sensor is underneath, not on the top. The glass needs time to soak the heat, otherwise your undertemp and your part will pop off.
If you are getting delamination (cracks mid-print) then there are two things to help: Enclosure (you said you already done) and increasing the extruder temp a little (try 200-205). As for the difference in temperatures, the sensor of the Solidoodle is taped to the outside of the heater block, so the actual temperature of the filament is roughly 30 degrees hotter than the reported temperature.
If you still have problems with curling or sticking, some other tips that help are:
-Dont use 100% infill.
-Use a brim.
-ABS slurry or Elmers glue stick.
If your circles are off, you need to do the Y and X belt tensioning calibration.

Thank you. I just checked a square item I printed 1.5"x1.5" and it's about .030" longer in one direction. You say I have to adjust belts to correct this problem? I was hoping to just adjust the steps per inch, but maybe you can't do that ( like Mach 3). I'll look more into that.

If everyone doesn't mind, I'd like to post a few of my settings to verify I have them input correctly. Will do tomorrow.

Thanks for your help!

**muddtt** · 2013-10-20 14:20:36

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

I just adjusted my Z height after leveling the bed to get the most consistent first layer I could. Meaning, I print a test box. Make sure the first layer skirt and perimeters are sticking well. Also make sure the infill is overlapping just enough to where it doesn't get rough and there are no gaps between the lines.

As others suggested, give time for the glass to get up to temp, not just the repetier host reading. A good enclosure helps depending on climate you're printing in.

You'll get it. It took me awhile, but now prints seem to stick almost all the time. Just took time calibrating about everything and messing around with slicer settings. But you get to learn your printer very well in the process.

**Gomisan** · 2013-10-20 22:38:43

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

diyengineer wrote:

Thank you. I just checked a square item I printed 1.5"x1.5" and it's about .030" longer in one direction. You say I have to adjust belts to correct this problem? I was hoping to just adjust the steps per inch, but maybe you can't do that ( like Mach 3). I'll look more into that.
If everyone doesn't mind, I'd like to post a few of my settings to verify I have them input correctly. Will do tomorrow.
Thanks for your help!

Once you've adjusted the belts and they're firm (not too tight) and even, then do some calibrations and adjust your steps per mm. It really helps to get a metric ruler/calipers and talk in metric on these forums as most measurements and calibrations are in millimetres.

**diyengineer** · 2013-10-21 02:19:49

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

Well today i did some serious testing of the bed with an IR thermometer.

Situation:

Enclosure sealed
Room temp 20.3C
1.8mm glass clamped to printbed

Programmed bed to 95C (waited).
Software said it hit 95C, checked temp with IR gun, 72C all around.

2Minutes waiting: 75C all around.

4minutes waiting: 76C all around

6minutes waiting: 76C all around

So far it seems my 95C only gives 76C, a difference of 19C.
Increase to 115C programmed temp.

10 minutes (only at 105C/115C) 82C bed temp

15 minutes(only at 113C/115C) 90C bed temp

17 minutes programmed 115, software indicated 115, actual IR bed temp 92C.

20 minutes bed temp 93C.

Conclusion: Indicated software temperature of heated bed, when glass is present must be set 22C higher in software to actually reach 95C on glass bed.

Printed a test piece, and the filament seemed very different, poorly bonded not to the surface, but to itself, and it seemed as it was curling in a different way. (maybe to hot)??

So new question: what temperature is everyone else printing at, and can you verify it with a IR gun.

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**Gomisan** · 2013-10-21 02:30:11

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

An IR gun wont give accurate readings from glass. Also, for better thermal transfer, try a bit of heatsink compound.

fore those who know about these things... would painting a small patch of glass with matt black paint give a better reading from an IR thermometer?

**diyengineer** · 2013-10-21 02:35:23

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

I didn't shoot the glass directly, i just put some blue painters tape in the middle and 4 corners so it would be able to work. If i didn't i think it would be shooting through the glass haha.

**diyengineer** · 2013-10-21 02:49:31

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

Here is a picture of the current situation. Extreme curling (id say its even worse now than before). Plus the layers seem to delam from themselves. I imagine this must be to warm as i was not having that problem before.

Im still stuck on how i printed 17 good ones, but now cant get anything to work...

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**ronsii** · 2013-10-21 03:40:12

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

Gomisan wrote:

An IR gun wont give accurate readings from glass. Also, for better thermal transfer, try a bit of heatsink compound.
fore those who know about these things... would painting a small patch of glass with matt black paint give a better reading from an IR thermometer?

Yes....

Here is a list of emissivity values to give you an idea of the differences.
http://www.thermoworks.com/emissivity_table.html

**Gomisan** · 2013-10-21 04:09:51

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

Hmmm, annoying then the table has the following:

Aluminium: anodised 0.77
Glass 0.92
Glass: frosted 0.96
Glass: frosted 0.70
Paint: oil, black, flat 0.94

Which would imply that frosted glass is either a) rreally quite a good surface to get a reading or b) not such a good surface! and that painted flat black wouldn't be much better.

Not arguing here, just pointing out the table seems a bit skewey.

Actually from looking at the paper values, the blue tape probably wouldn't be helping your readings at all DIYEngineer.

**ronsii** · 2013-10-21 04:47:38

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

The .77 is for anodized aluminum while aluminum anodizes naturally I believe this reading is for actual anodized by electro chemical means, the SD print bed is bare aluminum with a brushed finished.

Glass can also have a large variance of values depending on it's composition and finish that's why when dealing with unknown materials it is best to supplement a material with known emissivity value to use for the surface target.

**elmoret** · 2013-10-21 05:04:26

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

diyengineer wrote:

Well today i did some serious testing of the bed with an IR thermometer.
Situation:
Enclosure sealed
Room temp 20.3C
1.8mm glass clamped to printbed
Programmed bed to 95C (waited).
Software said it hit 95C, checked temp with IR gun, 72C all around.
2Minutes waiting: 75C all around.
4minutes waiting: 76C all around
6minutes waiting: 76C all around
So far it seems my 95C only gives 76C, a difference of 19C.
Increase to 115C programmed temp.
10 minutes (only at 105C/115C) 82C bed temp
15 minutes(only at 113C/115C) 90C bed temp
17 minutes programmed 115, software indicated 115, actual IR bed temp 92C.
20 minutes bed temp 93C.
Conclusion: Indicated software temperature of heated bed, when glass is present must be set 22C higher in software to actually reach 95C on glass bed.
Printed a test piece, and the filament seemed very different, poorly bonded not to the surface, but to itself, and it seemed as it was curling in a different way. (maybe to hot)??
So new question: what temperature is everyone else printing at, and can you verify it with a IR gun.

Those temperatures are probably correct. The thermocouple is bonded to the heating pad, and between that thermocouple you have three thermal resistances:

aluminium bed
aluminium to glass junction (probably an air gap here)
glass

so, you don't get 95C on the surface of the glass... same way you don't get 60C on the outside of a water heater.

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**IanJohnson** · 2013-10-21 05:33:55

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

I'm not sure that bed temperature is the problem. That wouldn't cause that kind of delamination in the first few layers like that. It seems like the plastic isn't really sticking to anything, never mind the bed. Is there another filament you can try? Is there a draft from someplace like the extruder motor fan that is able to reach the print? Try a lower layer height and see if the layers bond any better.

**diyengineer** · 2013-10-21 05:56:22

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

IanJohnson wrote:

I'm not sure that bed temperature is the problem. That wouldn't cause that kind of delamination in the first few layers like that. It seems like the plastic isn't really sticking to anything, never mind the bed. Is there another filament you can try? Is there a draft from someplace like the extruder motor fan that is able to reach the print? Try a lower layer height and see if the layers bond any better.

Ronsii-
Per your chart:

Glass 0.92
Glass: chemical ware (partly transparent) 0.97
Glass: frosted 0.96
Glass: frosted 0.70
Glass: polished plate 0.94

"For example, if an object had the potential to emit 100 units of energy but only emits 90 units in the real world, then that object would have an emissivity value of 0.90."

Elmoret-

I believe you are correct. Especially if the aluminum plate is not flat, that would leave quite the air gap between the glass and aluminum. It is really hard to figure out temps when people are throwing around numbers. I think to myself well is that your programmed software temp, or actual temp of your printing surface verified with a thermometer.

IanJohnson-
I think your right also, ive increased the temps, but any issues have become worse. Before when i had good prints, i used 95C (software) and had no problems. As for the layer thickness i am using .3mm, and the filiment nozzle i have selected as .35mm (from what i could find from solidoodle website). I also setup my z height using a .3mm steel shim. So after i hit "z home" (while over the glass bed) after it homes i can correctly pass a .3mm shim between the table and nozzle. the only fan inside is the one on the back of the extruder. I don't believe that is blowing enough to disturb the ABS since it gets pretty toasty inside.

Gomisan-
My left belt appears to not be as "tight" as the other belt. Will do a quick tighten until both feel the same, until i can print out one of those weighted belt adjustment tools.

Next Step:
-Going to swap filament to another color (all purchased from solidoodle).
- Remove glass bed until known bed temps (good and bad) are established.
- Will attempt to print on kapton tape, and blue painters tape.
- Ordered 5 pounds of PLA that i will swap to if i cannot get ABS to print successfully (later in week).

**Gomisan** · 2013-10-21 06:19:09

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

I thought the nozzle was 35mm too, but evidently if it's a newer SD3 then the nozzle is .40mm

**diyengineer** · 2013-10-21 08:46:50

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

Gomisan wrote:

I thought the nozzle was 35mm too, but evidently if it's a newer SD3 then the nozzle is .40mm

Dang. They should really update the website.

"Trouble-free custom acrylic extruder with stepper motor, .35mm nozzle"

I will change that setting.

Am i also correct to leave a .3mm gap between the bed and nozzle?

"c) Check to make sure that the Printhead begins the first layer at the appropriate height above the build platform (.3mm). The first layer should stick."

http://wiki.solidoodle.com/first-layers … e-z-offset

The pictures are great, but being a machinist by trade, it drives me insane that they do not have any numbers!

**adrian** · 2013-10-21 08:54:30

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

I put my nozzle virtually on the bed, at best its maybe 0.1mm ? thickness of a standard piece of paper is the gap you want... till it just grabs the paper...

**diyengineer** · 2013-10-21 09:08:30

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

adrian wrote:

I put my nozzle virtually on the bed, at best its maybe 0.1mm ? thickness of a standard piece of paper is the gap you want... till it just grabs the paper...

Thanks for the verification Adrian. I had it like that at one point and it seem to have made A LOT better prints when it was at paper thickness. I took the .3mm height literally and had that much of a gap between my bed. That would explain why my layers didn't stick together worth a damn.

Well at least that is one thing i can cross off my list of confusion

**solijohn** · 2013-10-21 18:01:54

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

diyengineer wrote:

adrian wrote:
I put my nozzle virtually on the bed, at best its maybe 0.1mm ? thickness of a standard piece of paper is the gap you want... till it just grabs the paper...
Thanks for the verification Adrian. I had it like that at one point and it seem to have made A LOT better prints when it was at paper thickness. I took the .3mm height literally and had that much of a gap between my bed. That would explain why my layers didn't stick together worth a damn.
Well at least that is one thing i can cross off my list of confusion

Most of the measurements on the printer are done relatively. You can imagine that with everything resting on springs as it does, it needs to be "dialed in" a bit.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues. (Page 1 of 9)

Posts: 1 to 25 of 208

1 Topic by diyengineer 2013-10-20 06:58:10

Topic: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

2 Reply by diyengineer 2013-10-20 07:06:55

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

3 Reply by diyengineer 2013-10-20 07:09:08

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

4 Reply by diyengineer 2013-10-20 07:10:20

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

5 Reply by Gomisan 2013-10-20 07:44:18

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

6 Reply by diyengineer 2013-10-20 09:44:25

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

7 Reply by Hazer 2013-10-20 11:09:44

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

8 Reply by diyengineer 2013-10-20 13:42:11

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

9 Reply by muddtt 2013-10-20 14:20:36 (edited by muddtt 2013-10-20 14:24:54)

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

10 Reply by Gomisan 2013-10-20 22:38:43

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

11 Reply by diyengineer 2013-10-21 02:19:49

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

12 Reply by Gomisan 2013-10-21 02:30:11

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

13 Reply by diyengineer 2013-10-21 02:35:23

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

14 Reply by diyengineer 2013-10-21 02:49:31 (edited by diyengineer 2013-10-21 02:55:06)

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

15 Reply by ronsii 2013-10-21 03:40:12

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

16 Reply by Gomisan 2013-10-21 04:09:51

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

17 Reply by ronsii 2013-10-21 04:47:38

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

18 Reply by elmoret 2013-10-21 05:04:26

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

19 Reply by IanJohnson 2013-10-21 05:33:55

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

20 Reply by diyengineer 2013-10-21 05:56:22

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

21 Reply by Gomisan 2013-10-21 06:19:09

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

22 Reply by diyengineer 2013-10-21 08:46:50

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

23 Reply by adrian 2013-10-21 08:54:30

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

24 Reply by diyengineer 2013-10-21 09:08:30

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

25 Reply by solijohn 2013-10-21 18:01:54

Re: Solidoodle 3 Mods, and issues.

Posts: 1 to 25 of 208