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Topic: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

Hi All,

Having some sort of Y-axis issue that doesn't appear to be easily solved. My solidoodle 2 has been performing without issue for the past two years. Just last week, I was printing something close to the full X/Y bed capacity, so the pulley and gear system was hitting its max range. I heard what sounded like a combination of a pop/grind noise while the print head was at the left most side of the print bed (went facing unit). After that happened, the print continued, but a good inch closer to the back (where the bed attaches to the screw drive). I killed the print, checked for obstructions, cleared the bed and tried again. First thing I noticed was that the circles on the first layer were closer to ovals with a distinct hitch in them. About 75% into my first layer and I hear the noise again and the print is way off this time. It continues to print the correct patters, but in the wrong place.

I read a few calibration and saw a couple "how-to" videos. I adjusted all belt tension, re-aligned the pulleys, and checked the carriage for range of motion while the motor was off. This adjustment helped correct the ovals back into circles, but a few layers into my print and the "pop" noise comes back.  This time my print is just off about a CM, but now it makes the "pop" noise almost every time it hits that left side of the bed.

There is no obstruction that I can see. My belts are even and with moderate tension. Range of motion feels fine. All pulleys are lined up with the exception to the right rail. I did notice is slight movement left to right of the pulley band when moving the carriage front and back.  I think the front right 3D printed pulley seat might need replacement.  However, that doesn't explain the "pop" noise. It sounds like built up tension letting go.  Any ideas?  Thanks in advance.

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Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

Sounds like your belts are not aligned with one another.  The pop sound you are hearing is most likely the belt jumping teeth on the pulley.  loosen the set screw on the right rear drive pulley and then move the carriage front to back several times, stopping in an nice neutral position in the center.  Then carefully tighten that set screw without allowing the pulley to turn.  You should also consider getting some oil on the drive rod bushings if you haven't already done so.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

3

Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

wardjr wrote:

Sounds like your belts are not aligned with one another.  The pop sound you are hearing is most likely the belt jumping teeth on the pulley.  loosen the set screw on the right rear drive pulley and then move the carriage front to back several times, stopping in an nice neutral position in the center.  Then carefully tighten that set screw without allowing the pulley to turn.  You should also consider getting some oil on the drive rod bushings if you haven't already done so.

Thank you. I'll give that a go. I actually thought that was one of the things I tried, but I didn't really loosen the belts before trying to find neutral. Makes sense now that I read your comment.

One other question about this process: before I started adjusting things, I noticed my left and right belts were really loose. I could easily finger tighten them and one looked like it was minute away from falling out. I tighten the adjuster bolts, but was wondering how much tension there should be on those pulleys. Also, when you adjust, it seems like only the top side of the pulley belt gets tension. Is that right? Basically, it is tightening from the bolt to the gear, but not after the gear.

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Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

Or to really improve things dramatically, go with the Y direct drive mod:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:593006

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Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

It basically ends up as a closed loop so tightening the belts with the set screw loose on the drive rod is how I do it.  That way the tension isn't affected by the teeth of the pulleys.  It is difficult to describe how tight they need to be, They should be tight enough to prevent backlash but not so tight they deflect the drive rod..  You don't want them too loose either.  The important thing is they be equal in tension.  Then do what I posted above after you've tensioned the belts and secured the left setscrew.  Basically to get those belts timed with one another one drive pulley has to be able to rotate on the shaft.  It may take a few attempts but eventually you find that sweet spot where everything just works.
I want to clarify to follow the above posted steps with the belts tight (adjusted properly) but the right drive pulley set screw loose.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

6

Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

Claghorn wrote:

Or to really improve things dramatically, go with the Y direct drive mod:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:593006

Direct drive is definitely a good mod to consider and how I run my machines.  (Sorry Claghorn I don't use your mount)
But that mount is an easy way for most to convert to direct drive.
I also feel that bearings on the drive rod are important as well.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

7

Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

Great stuff guys. I thank you both.  Didn't realize direct drive was an option. Only question now is if I can get my printer working good enough to print one of these out.

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Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

Tried all suggestions, short of the direct drive (because I couldn't print the mount). While it isn't jumping wildly off anymore, it is now stepping back a couple MM every pass, making a vertical wall look like stairs. The lower side facing me and the higher side pointing to the rear of the printer by the Z spindle.

I noticed something when I loosened the right belt. When moving the print carriage back and fourth, there seemed to be a "notch" feeling in the movement between 1/3 to 1/2 the Y travel, closer to the back of the machine.

In any case, I think this will require a full dismantle and rebuild at this point. Wondering if I should bother or pony up for a SD4. Thanks again for all the suggestions.

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Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

It's worth the trouble to fix and there's a good chance an SD4 will have just as many issues.  Spend some time looking through other hacks and mods.  There's a lot of easy to do upgrades as long as you already have to tear it down.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

10

Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

Could be one or both of the brackets on the front rail has cracked or something (where the pulleys for the other end of the Y belts live). I think I've seen people report that as a problem before. If that has happened, superglue might be a temporary fix long enough to print new brackets.

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Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

Claghorn wrote:

Could be one or both of the brackets on the front rail has cracked or something (where the pulleys for the other end of the Y belts live). I think I've seen people report that as a problem before. If that has happened, superglue might be a temporary fix long enough to print new brackets.

Funny you mention that. The front right 3D printed bracket is pulling away from the metal frame a bit and has some play. Might be cracked in a place I can't see. It is no longer flush and you can tell it's off because the end of the screw that should be parallel with the frame is not longer true. Could that really be causing the issue?

Question now is how do I fix the problem without a 3D printer?

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Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

You might be able to take the existing bracket off and repair it enough with superglue to print new ones (I used these at one point in my mad modding: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:79737). The trouble with trying to remove it without destroying it is that solidoodle used locktite on the screw holding it to the front of the frame (they did on mine, anyway), though perhaps a heat gun could soften it enough to unscrew. I didn't have any success getting mine off in one piece though, I had to destroy it to get a good enough grip on the screw to unscrew it (even with a heat gun).

Another alternative might be some kind of wire ties or clamps to try and hold the bracket together long enough to print new ones.

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Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

Claghorn wrote:

You might be able to take the existing bracket off and repair it enough with superglue to print new ones (I used these at one point in my mad modding: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:79737). The trouble with trying to remove it without destroying it is that solidoodle used locktite on the screw holding it to the front of the frame (they did on mine, anyway), though perhaps a heat gun could soften it enough to unscrew. I didn't have any success getting mine off in one piece though, I had to destroy it to get a good enough grip on the screw to unscrew it (even with a heat gun).

Another alternative might be some kind of wire ties or clamps to try and hold the bracket together long enough to print new ones.

^all of that and if all else fails reach out.  Someone will be willing to print you new ones and send them.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

14

Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

I was actually not very impressed with the print quality of the front left bracket on my machine. Layer separation and what appears to be unmelted filament. That's probably why that front right one failed early. Maybe I can test out my zen calm and hold the bracket during the hour print. Thanks again.

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Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

DLM wrote:

Maybe I can test out my zen calm and hold the bracket during the hour print.

Why be calm when you could use vise grips?

SD3 w/ RUMBA (8825s), merlin hot end (in pieces). Ender3 w/ silent board for PLA printing. Ender5 w/ silent board, e3d v6, new z lead screw, and glass bed. DiY Kossel w/ smoothieboard (in pieces). Vellman Vertex (in pieces)
Shapeoko2 router in process of being converted to laser engraver (in pieces)
Multicam 5000 series CNC Router w/ 11HP spindle, 5x10' table, and auto tool changer (in pieces)

16

Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

TheBaron wrote:
DLM wrote:

Maybe I can test out my zen calm and hold the bracket during the hour print.

Why be calm when you could use vise grips?

needle nose vise grips. yuppers, that's the ticket.

the Y brackets on my SD4 literally fell apart when I took them off & tried to get the little brass threaded inserts out after printing new ones...

I have since upgraded them again to a bearing model - stock 5mm screw rides on bearings now, with the pulley set screwed to it - seems to be working pretty well so far, only been installed 1 day tho... need more testing time to tell how well they will hold up

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

17

Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

Hammer, gaffer's tape, vise grips, and a combination screwdriver and you can fix damn near anything.

SD3 w/ RUMBA (8825s), merlin hot end (in pieces). Ender3 w/ silent board for PLA printing. Ender5 w/ silent board, e3d v6, new z lead screw, and glass bed. DiY Kossel w/ smoothieboard (in pieces). Vellman Vertex (in pieces)
Shapeoko2 router in process of being converted to laser engraver (in pieces)
Multicam 5000 series CNC Router w/ 11HP spindle, 5x10' table, and auto tool changer (in pieces)

18 (edited by heartless 2015-07-01 19:45:26)

Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

TheBaron wrote:

Hammer, gaffer's tape, vise grips, and a combination screwdriver and you can fix damn near anything.

so, have you fixed that kossel yet?? wink

would really like to see some progress from YOU in that thread... just sayin... LOL

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

19

Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

heartless wrote:
TheBaron wrote:

Hammer, gaffer's tape, vise grips, and a combination screwdriver and you can fix damn near anything.

so, have you fixed that kossel yet?? wink

would really like to see some progress from YOU in that thread... just sayin... LOL

Once the boyfriend and the kids finish moving out, I'll have plenty of time and space. Right now the kossel is sitting on my bedroom floor and the solidoodle is on a bookcase, a table, and in some bags in the kitchen.

SD3 w/ RUMBA (8825s), merlin hot end (in pieces). Ender3 w/ silent board for PLA printing. Ender5 w/ silent board, e3d v6, new z lead screw, and glass bed. DiY Kossel w/ smoothieboard (in pieces). Vellman Vertex (in pieces)
Shapeoko2 router in process of being converted to laser engraver (in pieces)
Multicam 5000 series CNC Router w/ 11HP spindle, 5x10' table, and auto tool changer (in pieces)

20

Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

wardjr wrote:

Someone will be willing to print you new ones and send them.

That would be me! big_smile
I have a couple laying around, so send me a PM if you need them.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

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Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

It very interesting.

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Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

Sounds to me you had a crash and something slipped and likely the x axis in no longer square to the y have you checked this ?

Tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

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Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

Sorry to revive this thread, but I'm at my breaking point here with this SD2 and you guys have had some great suggestions so far. Here's where I'm at:

Temporarily duct-taped the right-front rod bracket into correct position. No substantial play on pulley or rod. I loosened the left and right belts via the socket head screws giving them a fair amount of slack. I also loosened the socket set screws on the rear rod. I wiped all old lube off all rods and re-applied fresh grease. Moved the print carriage around the full range of motion for a good 5 minutes to spread the new grease. Felt no obstructions and moving around the carriage seemed to find the natural resting spots for all pulleys. Tightened up the socket set screws first to lock in natural resting spot. Tightened socket head screws to medium slack on pulley belt. Again, moved print carriage around full range of motion and found no tight spots.  Plugged in and turned on SD2.

After connecting, I found that moving the print carriage via software was now finding full range of motion without any strange noises or stopping via mechanical failure. After heating, I tested out a 5" ring test print. The circle came out as good as I've ever been able to print them. I was psyched, as I thought I fixed my SD2. I then decided to pick up where I left off and print a SD2 wire harness guide. About 10 layers into the print and I hear the "pop" noise again. I let it go, hoping it was the wire harness hitting the frame. Came back 15 minutes later and I have to "stepped" print again, where every layer is about 1.75mm back on the Y axis from the last. X & Z axis are fine. The distance back is almost exactly the same as the filament diameter if that makes any difference. I think it must be the smaller, jerking motions that is making it F-up now. Any suggestions aside from throwing out my 8th floor window?

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Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

I think a picture of a failed print may provide some insight.  You could simply be over extruding some causing the nozzle to snag.  The Y axis being the weakest, it would skip well before the X axis.
No throwing printers from the 8th floor please.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

25

Re: Solidoodle 2, Y-axis slipping/skipping

wardjr wrote:

I think a picture of a failed print may provide some insight.  You could simply be over extruding some causing the nozzle to snag.  The Y axis being the weakest, it would skip well before the X axis.
No throwing printers from the 8th floor please.

Thanks for the input. I'll send a couple pics when I get home later today. Forgot to mention that I also balanced the rear rod after loosening the socket set screws, making sure there was the same amount of rod poking out of the sides of the frame on each side. I think the frustrating part now is that I just can't tell what's making that popping noise and throwing off the prints. It seems as though the slower, wide arc motion of the 5" circle is being handled fine but the short, jerking movements is causing something to slip.