1 Topic by jon_bondy

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Topic: ABS warping and bed temperature

This from the Trinity Labs A1 forum:

Sep 11
Here is my first big ABS part. No curling or warping in the corners! I'm printing at 233C at the head and 105C for the bed. The TG point of ABS is approximately 100C. To relieve the internal stresses in the part, the bed temperature must therefor be higher than the TG. As soon as I realized that (I had been printing at 95C), no more problems.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic … kz_BaA2fFg

If this turns out to be true, there may be a fundamental design flaw in the newer Solidoodles (where the bed temperature is limited to 80C, if my memory is correct).

2 Reply by chuddly

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

i have an SD3 and print at 118 every time i print.  It does HELP with the warping but i can still get it.  I usually stay around 200-203 on the head temp.  The problem is even at 203 if you let the ABS sit in the head it starts to burn and discolor it.  I have never tried the temps the guys at trinity labs are saying.  Thats a REALLY high head temp

3 Reply by elmoret

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

203C on a SD is like 233C on anything else. The sensor is in a different place.

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4 Reply by chuddly

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

ah ok....so im pushing limits and not even knowing it LOL

5 Reply by mcbride19

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

85/95 ° is enough on the bed and to prevent warping just use low cost hair spray and a good brim that's all ,no need to push the bed temperature, I use to print with a bed temperature at 85/90 °, with no warping . wink

6 Reply by RavensCrest

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

i think bed temp only helps soo much.. because if you print a tall structure.. the heated part is probably only the first inch.

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7 Reply by chuddly

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

RavensCrest wrote:

i think bed temp only helps soo much.. because if you print a tall structure.. the heated part is probably only the first inch.

Im sure you are dead on on this.

8 Reply by Hazer

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

Heated bed is the first thing you need to stop the lifting. Hairspray and a 6mm brim is the next thing to help lifting. Glass or tile heated for 10 minutes before printing will eliminate lifting.

An enclsoure is the only thing to help tall prints and/or overhangs from lifting.

Oh, and a small infill rate (0.2) also helps as a solid infill keeps the center warm and the outer perimeter cools faster making the lifting worse.

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9 Reply by Gomisan

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

This is one of those subjects where there are so many contributing factors, no one solution will work for all.

I run my bed at 110C, and it's a new SD3, so I don't know where the 80C limitation comes in.

Certain parts will try and warp no matter what, it's all about tension and how forces are being applied in the cooling model. I say 'try' because with a bit of care you can get some pretty warp prone prints to stick.

A glass bed helped a little
Hairspray added to that
Brims help in some cases
Running the bed hotter helped some more
Altering the design of some parts helped a lot
ABS slurry has made a bit of a mess but almost guaranteed noting comes off  smile

I think each print I do gets individual treatment to some extent.

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10 Reply by jon_bondy

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

Gomisan wrote:

I run my bed at 110C, and it's a new SD3, so I don't know where the 80C limitation comes in.

I thought I had read somewhere that the new SDs had beds that were intentionally limited to 80 C.  I guess I got that wrong.

11 Reply by ronsii

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

No, I remember SD support saying that too.

12 Reply by ronsii

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

Here it is...

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2023/sol … questions/

13 Reply by Gomisan

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

An odd thread that really didnt seem to go anywhere.

I suspect that heaer limitation may have been reversed, or limited to only a few printers. I've not seen anyone here posting about bed temps being limited to that low.

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14 Reply by Skyler101

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

SD3 and this lifting and warping is driving me a little crazy. Smaller parts are fine, use a glass bed and hairspray. Used PLA to learn the machine, and was getting cool results except for some blue stuff, which I think was due to the pigment. Now using Black ABS, and I get the same kind of warping. Printed the same part in PLA, and it came out perfect...

I have also noticed that the area that warps is in the same place on the heating bed. Wondering if I might have a cool spot on my print bed sad Anyone heard of that happening?

Does anyone have a "how to" set up a 6mm brim???

-Skyler

15 Reply by sigiel (edited by sigiel 2013-09-21 12:25:24)

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

I have thee new version s3 and the glass bed + enclosure = relay cheap hairspray my print refuse to come off...

I have to let them cool down , the first time it was scary as it "poped" I did believe the print was broken...

now is nearly impossible to get the print off the bed strait away...

Ps: extruder 200 bed 110

16 Reply by Skyler101

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

I think I will build an enclosure for my machine. I use hairspray, but so far nothing that holds so strong. Maybe I should get some cheap hairspray and try again.

-Skyler101

17 Reply by diyengineer

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

I'll have to search on how to set up a brim. Also having sticking issues, but i think its too early to blame anything other than myself yet haha.

18 Reply by solijohn

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

Gomisan wrote:

An odd thread that really didnt seem to go anywhere.

I suspect that heaer limitation may have been reversed, or limited to only a few printers. I've not seen anyone here posting about bed temps being limited to that low.

We used to have beds that were limited that way. Not anymore.

For the record, they seemed to work OK. Remember, we use the printers for the parts on the printer - the fail rate on the line would have been unacceptable if there was a massive problem.

Then again we also print on Kapton with no spray. With black filament.

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19 Reply by IanJohnson

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

I wonder if the lack of sticking problems in the Solidoodle bot farm is due to printing the same objects over and over.  The parts get printed on top of the accumulated residue of many previous identical prints, so it would be a little like using a print bed treated with an abs/acetone mix.

20 Reply by solijohn

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

IanJohnson wrote:

I wonder if the lack of sticking problems in the Solidoodle bot farm is due to printing the same objects over and over.  The parts get printed on top of the accumulated residue of many previous identical prints, so it would be a little like using a print bed treated with an abs/acetone mix.

Perhaps this, and the parts seem to be fairly reasonable to print in general. They were designed to be printable.

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21 Reply by cckens

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

Question to ask would be, single or multiples in the bot farm.  I have an issue with printing full bed items (large single or multi that span the bed), but single pieces about 40-60mm in the center of the bed have no issue. It may be that if you are doing single pieces in the center you may not be having an issue.  That with the "seasoned" portion of the bed could give you the best results.

22 Reply by n2ri

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

80c does great on my SD2

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

23 Reply by rvanee

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

80 centigrade here too. (with fairly thick mirror and hair spray)

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24 Reply by morelli.paul

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

Im going on almost a year for my SD3.  One problem after another.  The printer came off kilter out of the box, tilts from side to side... 

Never can get the bed above 85C, I enclosed it in acrylic, have the glass bed and use hairspray.

I have the bed flat and extruder calibrated.

Little prints come out fine, anything over 4 inches, good luck. 

Ive been using ABS, I am planning trying PLA, maybe its the ABS.

25 Reply by wardjr

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Re: ABS warping and bed temperature

morelli.paul wrote:

Im going on almost a year for my SD3.  One problem after another.  The printer came off kilter out of the box, tilts from side to side... 

Never can get the bed above 85C, I enclosed it in acrylic, have the glass bed and use hairspray.

I have the bed flat and extruder calibrated.

Little prints come out fine, anything over 4 inches, good luck. 

Ive been using ABS, I am planning trying PLA, maybe its the ABS.

It's your bed temperature.... Get up over 105 and a lot of your problems will go away.  Using a good 5mm brim helps also.
So if your bed temp won't go any higher it can be many things.  Mostly the heater that came with the SD3 around the time you got yours was not good.  I know mine wasn't.

Also the power supply that came with the SD3 was also inadequate.
The good news is you can check and see if it's a Power supply issue.  I presume you have the printer board that had screw terminals for the 12v power in.  So all I did was put any good 12V  battery into play. (I used an ATV Battery)  Just hook your PSU wires to the battery then two others wires from that to the board.  Red to Red   Black to black. 
This will act as a reserve and if your heater then achieves higher temps then you know it is just a PSU issue.
In my case I ran for close to a month using a battery charger that I had laying around that had a 50 amp boost setting.  Before I did this I checked that the voltage was near 12V.  If I recall it was closer to 14V.  It worked like a charm until I could address the PSU issue. 
Give it a shot what do you have to lose.

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