1 (edited by AZERATE 2015-10-18 02:46:36)

Topic: .9° extruder motor mod

DRV8825+E3D Hobb Goblin+.9° stepper motor="The Poor Man's Bulldog XL".
Or, as I would like to call it, the next mod that should be done!

I recently purchased 2 motors off of OMC-stepperonline.com for some testing.
A 17HM08-1204S "half-stacked" motor would be ideal, since it would weigh less than the stock Solidoodle extruder motor 
SM42HT33-1334A. In comparison:
OMC Motor | SD Motor
-----------------------------
150g          | 220g
That's quite a load off! However, it only had enough torque to load the filament, and
could not actually print a skirt! That's out the window. After installation, I compared
specs and here's how it breaks down:
OMC Motor  | SD Motor
------------------------------
11Ncm        | 22Ncm
Screw that. At least I have a motor for testing or small projects smile

Then it was time for the 17HM15-0904S which is about 3mm deeper than the stock SD motor if I recall correctly. Due to the added weight by comparison, I was not as keen on it and wish the half-stacked pulled its weight....or anything. smile
OMC Motor    | SD Motor
--------------------------------
280g              | 220g
An added 27~% weight isn't as bad as it could be, but I was still trying to shave off mass to avoid speed limitations. Then again, the torque was very appealing:
OMC Motor    | SD Motor
--------------------------------
36Ncm          | 22Ncm
This thing is phenominal! I get prints that rival my Bulldog at a drastically reduced cost!
DRV8825 (not applicable for some boards like Smoothieboard or Printrboard)- $10~
E3D Hobb Goblin- $15
OMC 17HM15-0904S- $12
So for less than $40 (before shipping), I have a high performing extruder setup that performs as well as my $150 Bulldog XL. The differences between the two machines actually build more support for this approach:
#1            | Spookidoodle (thanks again for the name, jagowilson)
----------------------------
Bulldog XL | OMC .9° motor, Hobb Goblin
RUMBA      | Sanguinololu
E3D v5      | E3D v6, Volcano
.4 nozzle    | .6 nozzle

On my #1 I usually use .2963 layer height due to the outdated v5 heating block and .4 nozzle size. On the Spookidoodle I usually use .3951 layer height which would show more flaws if anything. But one other factor I should mention in the defense of the still-great Bulldog is that while both beds are aluminum, the Spookidoodle has a bed stabilizer I recently installed which works pretty well.

Pros:
*Spectacular resolution.
*Added weight does not seem to hinder performance. This weighs far less than the Bulldog which comes in at a whopping 495g!
*Height and width are the same as your stock motor. So cable chains and mounts do not need to be modified.
*It's black, so it matches my frame smile

Cons:
*It gets hot. VERY hot. With an IR I measured around 208f.
*The wires are short. Very short. Like 8" short. So be sure to have some extra wires around and either solder (what I did) or crimp some extensions on. Alternatively, you can splice into your old wires and save the plug, but the approach I took allows for painless reversion in case I wanted to go back for some bizarre reason. Pololu has these plugs which are my personal favorites. If you go this route, you will also need to get female crimp pins and some practice crimps...it can be tricky at first.
*The motor has an added 3mm depth and comes 5mm away from hitting the Z rods. With the added heat it builds in comparison, I've considered using a 20mm fan, but that would sacrifice another 15mm~ in build space.
*Once again. Heat. I used some Arctic Silver 5 for thermal compound, between that, a heatsink, and a 10mm fan, it still gets very very hot. I ran it with caution for some small prints to start as I calibrated, but once I hit the 20 hour mark, I went back to my 1+ hour prints and I am very happy.

As usual, you would have to adjust your EEPROM settings. This would double your original number....roughly. I went from 285 steps per/mm to 565. Just double it to start then dial it in from there.

Pics will be added ASAP.....hectic schedule. Took me over a week to type this.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

2

Re: .9° extruder motor mod

Extruder on bottom printed with the stock 1.8 motor
Top printed with .9 motor
Both printed at .3951 height
http://i.imgur.com/Flp78Q5.jpg

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

3 (edited by carl_m1968 2015-10-20 00:07:22)

Re: .9° extruder motor mod

To be honest I am not too impressed with either. Maybe it is just that enormous layer size throwing me off. My Mk10's do much better layering and tighter corners but then again we are comparing a converted Flashforge clone to an SD. Not trying to kill your buzz Az but I am just giving my opinion and my expectations of a printer. Those parts don't meet what *I* expect. I guess I am missing the point of such a mod. Can't the same be accomplished with microstepping?

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

4

Re: .9° extruder motor mod

I took the picture so that the light would show off any flaws. I'm printing at pretty fast speeds and a larger layer height would show more flaws than say .09878. I'll humor you and print slower with finer resolution. I'm currently churning out a lot parts for a few people, so it may take a few days.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

5

Re: .9° extruder motor mod

AZERATE wrote:

I took the picture so that the light would show off any flaws. I'm printing at pretty fast speeds and a larger layer height would show more flaws than say .09878. I'll humor you and print slower with finer resolution. I'm currently churning out a lot parts for a few people, so it may take a few days.


I get humored enough every morning that I look in the mirror. I just was curious the point of the mod as I and many others can get the same quality without it at 40+ mm/s and .2 to .3 layers. Is this something more inherent to SD??

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

6 (edited by AZERATE 2015-10-20 01:48:10)

Re: .9° extruder motor mod

Nope! It does, however, happen when you continuously mod and just get it back to operational. smile
To be fair, the SD aluminum beds do move around a bit. Thus, the stabilizer I mentioned.
My hotend had some motion, so I made it more secure....that's what causes the layers you see in the bottom part. This isn't about how each part compares as a whole, but the resolution of each layer.

This mod demolishes moire which starts showing up when using a metal hotend. The pieces I have outlined help get rid of it, and now it is a distant memory on the unit. When you introduce a part that requires a higher number in steps per/mm, you get more resolution. Also bare in mind that this is with a .6 nozzle that has been used and abused with many materials (SSPLA included), and I have been far too busy to spend the 10 minutes to swap.

EDIT: I am also printing 80mm/s. I see your 40mm and raise you another 40mm wink

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

7

Re: .9° extruder motor mod

Damn I never knew your nozzle was so large...  wink

Really did not know they come that big, at least not in the MK10 variety that I would need. I think .4 is as big as I can go.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

8

Re: .9° extruder motor mod

Can even go as big as .8 and I would like to add that I have used this mod with the cyclops.  I find that it easily duplicates the quality of a BulldogXL.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

9

Re: .9° extruder motor mod

Up to 1.2mm if you use a Volcano like yours truly. I laughed when I air-extruded from a 1.0mm nozzle.

Back on topic, thanks for the addition wardjr. I know others have done this, but haven't found anyone to really document it.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

10

Re: .9° extruder motor mod

I've been using this same .9/Hobb Goblin/DRV8825 setup for the last four months on my go-to machine, and as I have been printing PLA constantly the last 2 weeks, I have found this motor gets so hot, it radiates through the HG (Hobb Goblin) and manipulates the low-temp material. During print it is just fine! But since I print faster than some, a side fan is recommended. If printing ABS, have at it. But PLA needs constant cooling.

I saw this pop up the last few days after prints had completed when residual heat built up and effected the filament within the extruder. Even with the face and top sides of my enclosure open to vent chamber heat, the temperature of the motor from a 90 minute print was enough to distort the filament 1-5mm north of the pinch area.

For those wanting to do this mod and swap between materials, take heed. While I haven't been suffering any loss of operational quality mid-print, it would be safe to say than lower speeds would definitely require aforementioned side or front fan for reliable continuous printing....but I still stand by this motor!

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

11

Re: .9° extruder motor mod

AZERATE wrote:

Nope! It does, however, happen when you continuously mod and just get it back to operational. smile
To be fair, the SD aluminum beds do move around a bit. Thus, the stabilizer I mentioned.
My hotend had some motion, so I made it more secure....that's what causes the layers you see in the bottom part. This isn't about how each part compares as a whole, but the resolution of each layer.

This mod demolishes moire which starts showing up when using a metal hotend. The pieces I have outlined help get rid of it, and now it is a distant memory on the unit. When you introduce a part that requires a higher number in steps per/mm, you get more resolution. Also bare in mind that this is with a .6 nozzle that has been used and abused with many materials (SSPLA included), and I have been far too busy to spend the 10 minutes to swap.

EDIT: I am also printing 80mm/s. I see your 40mm and raise you another 40mm wink


I was wondering if that Aluminum bed would wobble more than the wood one since it dont have the 3 mounting screws and springs half surrounded with wood but just standing on top of the metal plate. I think the old counter sunk holes help stabilize the build plate some. might be worth wild to make a filler to lay in the aluminum bracket just for that

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

12

Re: .9° extruder motor mod

Thread bump!  I just ordered a couple of these 0.9 degree motors and I'm planning on using it in a bowden setup with the extruder on the back of the machine.  Would it be better to use a heat sink and fan stuck to the bottom of the motor (like the solidoodle extruder), or just mount the fan seperate and close to the body of the motor so that it blows over the motor body?  I just want to make sure it doesn't get too hot.  Thanks.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

13

Re: .9° extruder motor mod

You will definitely need a heatsink with a fan even if the motor is outside of the build chamber. I've considered adding another fan to see if I could cool it a little, but I haven't had the time.

If you can mount the motor to the frame, the printer will act like a heatsink as an added bonus

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!