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Topic: Strange splitting issue on one side only

Side 1: http://imgur.com/GXSzVOn
Side 2: http://imgur.com/GTNtHhV

Both are the same object, and wall thickness and just mirrored.  I am getting a strange splitting issue where it really does it more on one side and almost not at all on the other.

I recently replaced the stock extruder stepper because the hobbed gear had started to slip and it was glued on so I had to replace the whole thing after stripping the set screw.  I had a spare NEMA 17 around anyway.  After this, I did an entire re calibration.  Printing ABS at 245 C, bed at 100 C with a full enclosure.  PID tuned, E steps dialed in, fresh spool of ABS is not old.  Vref on E is adjusted, motor spins smooth without ticking but I might try turning it down even more to the point that it starts skipping, then back up just a little bit.

Any idea what is causing this, why it is primarily on one side, and how I could fix it?  Thanks!

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

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Re: Strange splitting issue on one side only

Looks like under extrusion to me. Is your new gear the same size as the old? Did you adjust and confirm your extruder e steps?

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

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Re: Strange splitting issue on one side only

No, not the same size and yes I did adjust E steps.  No symptoms of under extrusion are present in wall thickness tests, so I doubt that is the issue.  Especially since it is only on one side.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

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Re: Strange splitting issue on one side only

I played around with the Vref on the E motor some more... running it at 0.25 now based on my multimeter.  Still kinda getting poor results.  Can anyone tell me what the ideal value is based on this data sheet for my motor?

http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/downlo … -2004S.pdf

I'm running DRV8825's on the RUMBA board.  I'll confess I don't know much about the multimeter but it is set to V 20 to get the above reading.  I had it turned down to 0.15 and it skipped at higher speeds so I'm thinking this is a Vref issue.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

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Re: Strange splitting issue on one side only

Does your multimeter have a lower (e.g. "V 2") setting (might be a bit more accurate down at these levels)?

If it's the same as the pololu module: www.pololu.com/product/2133
Then current per phase I = Vref * 2 (according to the above)
Your motor is rated at 2.0A per phase (according to your datasheet)
So you could potentially run it at up to Vref=1.00V

That said, that's the maximum current setting - it might be hot and not very smooth at that level, but at least you know you can go a bit higher. 2A is quite high for the DRV8825 (it can in theory do up to 2.5A, pololu module max at 2.2A), so make sure you have a heatsink on the chip and a cooling fan for it, or it will probably thermal trip pretty quick much above Vref = 0.5V.

Good luck. smile

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

6

Re: Strange splitting issue on one side only

Yes, it has a V 2 setting.  I know I don't need to run it all the way up but honestly I don't even know the units of the 0.25 that I am reading.  But 0.25 at V 20 = 2.5 at V 2, so there's that.  I will try some more attempts at other settings but its about bed time...

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

7 (edited by grob 2015-08-11 00:41:55)

Re: Strange splitting issue on one side only

Haha ok... Sounds like an analog meter? If the scale goes up to "20" then it's probably 10U = 1V at the V 2 setting (the setting usually tells you what full scale is). Maybe post a pic of the multimeter tomorrow and someone will at least share your confusion hehe. Night!

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

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Re: Strange splitting issue on one side only

Its this one:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B7C … ge_o00_s00

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

9 (edited by carl_m1968 2015-08-11 01:13:27)

Re: Strange splitting issue on one side only


That meter is setup with ranges so you do need to know the range the voltage you are checking would be in. The green band on the top left is dc voltage. Its ranges start from top 500 volts. You can measure op to 500 volts. Then 200 volts. Up to 200 can be measured. Then we have 20. This where most voltages for DC on a printer would be meaured. Unless you have a machine that uses 24volts then you would need the 200 range. The next range is 2000m. That is mv or the same as 2 volts. The 200m which would be .2 volts or less.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

10

Re: Strange splitting issue on one side only

Thanks Carl, that is basically what I figured.  So I'm correct to be using it in the 20 V range.  So when I hold the red probe on the trim pot and the black to ground, I'm measuring 0.25.  I guess what I'm asking is what are the units on that measurement and where on my motor data sheet can I find the acceptable range?  I think that is a current measurement.  I know I can run the motor up to 2.0A but I don't want it nearly that high for an extruder.  Is 0.25 a good place to start?  Thanks.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

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Re: Strange splitting issue on one side only

20V the V stands for volts. You can not adjust current (amperage).  The motor draws what it draws and the driver will handle motors with an amperage rating up too 2 amps.  Amperage can not me measured across pins, it is measured inline.  (Think cut wire and a probe on each side of the cut).  The meter becomes part of the curcuit.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

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Re: Strange splitting issue on one side only

Thanks Ward.  So I am measuring 0.25 across the driver trimpot, what are the units on that and how does that correspond to how much torque my motor is delivering? 

Also, do you agree that my splitting issue is likely caused buy an extruder Vref issue?

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

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Re: Strange splitting issue on one side only

It's likely VREF is a source of the problem.  That is .25 volts which seems low to me.  I adjust them this way.
pull the filament out and get your tension arm out of the way.  Pinch the shaft of the motor or even the drive gear with your thumb and index finger.  Then call for motion ( make it a couple hundred mm's) do this fast at first (about 200 or more).  Pinching the shaft you want to feel for the the most torque as you adjust.  This is going to get you to the best torque but will also tend to run hot with too much voltage.  Then repeat but at a much slower speed as you turn it down slightly to make it sound nice and smooth while still pinching the shaft.
All this measuring is a great place to start but really only gets you close.  The real precision has to be done by ear and feel.  Keep in mind those 8825's can and do fail, they don't stop all at once but just get weaker and more sensitive to heat. 
Let me know if I can help more.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

14 (edited by grob 2015-08-13 06:32:53)

Re: Strange splitting issue on one side only

mdrVB6 wrote:

Thanks Carl, that is basically what I figured.  So I'm correct to be using it in the 20 V range.  So when I hold the red probe on the trim pot and the black to ground, I'm measuring 0.25.  I guess what I'm asking is what are the units on that measurement and where on my motor data sheet can I find the acceptable range?  I think that is a current measurement.  I know I can run the motor up to 2.0A but I don't want it nearly that high for an extruder.  Is 0.25 a good place to start?  Thanks.

You are measuring Vref, which is the reference voltage the stepper driver uses to work out how much current to pump through the motors. You are measuring it in volts (V), so 0.25 = 0.25V.

If your Vref is 0.25V, then according to the motor driver specification, your motor current is being controlled to 0.5A, which is probably a touch low for that motor. You have room to go up, which is good news!

The more current, the more motor torque (when stopped / moving slowly) - they're approximately proportional. The disadvantage of running the motors with super high current is the heat, noise, and in the case of the extruder, the moire pattern it will put into the  side of your prints (the microstepping becomes uneven).

I'd suggest similar to ward - my method's a bit different though.

(1) Get the extruder all up to temp, filament installed as usual, etc.
(2) Free-air-extrude a few 100 mm's
(3) While it's running, turn the pot down until the extruder starts skipping (clunking, you should be able to see/feel it skip).
(4) Now turn it back up and listen for a groaning noise - it appears gradually, the louder the groaning the more moire you'll get in your prints, but the less likely a skip will be.
(5) Tune back and forth until you're happy with a smooth sound but consistently no skipping (it's a balance!).
(6) Check the voltage when you're done, I guess it's likely to be a bit higher than you have it currently, but hard to say!

The pololu DRV8825 module allows Vref adjustment approximately between 0V and 1.1V, which corresponds to 0A - 2.2A motor current. Your motor will be fine over this range (nothing is likely to happen suddenly if you slightly over-drive it for a short time), so don't be afraid of playing with the Vref pot to get a feel for it. Take some time, get to understand the sound, it kind of makes sense when you listen to it. Think of it like tuning a guitar. smile

As for whether this causes your splitting issue, no idea haha.

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi