1 (edited by josh.aeauto 2015-07-28 15:24:32)

Topic: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

This idea started as result of another thread in "3D Printer Discussion" but since it's referring to modifying my printer, I felt it was appropriate to make a new thread here.

See this thread: http://www.soliforum.com/topic/11767/autotuning-pid/

I have an Airwolf HD2x and I am not really happy with the hotend because I'm having temperature issues and the replacement parts (like a new nozzle) are really expensive. A replacement hotend (the entire thing) is a whopping $600. New nozzles are $33 for cheap aluminum. Also the temperature isn't dual control - you get one temperature for two nozzles.

That said, I am interested in upgrading/moding to a different hotend like the E3D or Cyclops, Volcano, etc. I want to hear what you guys have to recommend and how much work I'm looking at to come up with my own mounting solution.

Thanks in advance.

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

2 (edited by IronMan 2015-07-17 17:33:55)

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

At a glance it does not seem too difficult.  The Airwolf uses 2 crossed rods for X/Y motion.  You just need to design a basic platform that mimics the connection to the linear bearings.  Beyond that, a Chimera mount is very straightforward, needing only a vertical surface with some mounting holes in the right locations...

EDIT:  BTW...I just doodled this up...this is by no means to accurate dimensions tongue

Post's attachments

Airwolf Mount.PDF 28.89 kb, 39 downloads since 2015-07-17 

You don't have the permssions to download the attachments of this post.
SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

3

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

So that's all I would need? This seems way too easy; I'm not used to things being so simple!

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

4

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

I think I'm going to go ahead and get the parts to upgrade and work on a mount once I get them in.

Purchasing from Tim, what parts will I need to upgrade to a dual extruder volcano for a bowden system?

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

5

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

It usually turns out a little harder than it seems, and since I don't have one, this is just observation from their web photos; but I think it's pretty straightforward and worth the effort.

You would also need to wire up a second heater cartridge and thermistor to the Rambo board for the twin hot ends (Chimera); and then flash the firmware appropriately.

You could go with a Cyclops and not have to do any of the wiring/flashing, and if you compare the Cyclops to your current setup, you would still have the compatible materials issue, but the single nozzle alleviates much in the way of leveling / alignment issues and such.

Personally I would get the "Legends Pack" from Filastruder which gives you everything...then you can choose.

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

6

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

Let me ask you this -

The way it's set up right now, it has two thermistors going to the RAMBo board; one for each extruder. I know it's definitely two thermistors because sometimes the reading will vary just a little - by +/- 0.1 or 0.2 degrees.

The heater is connected to "HEAT 0" on the board, and "HEAT 1" has no connection. To make things more interesting, if I go into Repetier-Host and turn the heater on for "HEAT 1", it never does anything - although it shows an active heater on the display. If I move the plug for "HEAT 0" to "HEAT 1" it heats the extruder.

What do you think?


http://i.imgur.com/NQkMUT1.jpg

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

7

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

Its possible it could be one thermistor broken out to two connections. The slight difference is due to polling intervals and display update delay. Still could be two but possibly one. Won't know unless you physically confirm it.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

8

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

carl_m1968 wrote:

Won't know unless you physically confirm it.

Looks like there are two going into the heater block. One on each side.

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

9

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

carl_m1968 wrote:

Its possible it could be one thermistor broken out to two connections. The slight difference is due to polling intervals and display update delay. Still could be two but possibly one. Won't know unless you physically confirm it.

This isn't really possible, unless custom thermistor tables are flashed as well. If you connect one thermistor to two ports, you end up with an effective balancing resistor half that of normal.

10

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

josh.aeauto wrote:

I think I'm going to go ahead and get the parts to upgrade and work on a mount once I get them in.

Purchasing from Tim, what parts will I need to upgrade to a dual extruder volcano for a bowden system?

Three routes:

Lite6+Volcano (cheapest, limited to 245C)
v6 + Volcano
Chimera + Volcano

v6 may be a little harder to mount since it has groovemounts instead of M3 screws. If you want Volcano parts instead of the nominal v6 parts, get in touch via email and I can put together a custom package.

I would mount it by making a plate that uses the same screw hole pattern as your existing laser cut plate that's under the heatsinks. Looks like M4 SHCS?

Also $600 for a hotend is insane.

11

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

elmoret - What are the temperature limits for the v6 and Chimera?

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

12

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

295C with included thermistor, 450C with 40w heaters and K-Type thermocouple. Heater upgrade no charge, thermocouple and thermocouple board prices are on the website.

13 (edited by josh.aeauto 2015-07-18 01:07:01)

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

[s]I'll use the two 40w heaters I bought yesterday[/s] and get the Chimera + Volcano. I'll send you an email through the site to confirm that I picked out the right parts.

Preciate the help guys! I'll post back here with an update when I get everything done. Really excited!

Edit: I see where you said there's no extra charge for the heater upgrade.

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

14

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

elmoret wrote:

Also $600 for a hotend is insane.

Maybe you should raise your prices tongue  NOT!

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

15

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

Just an update guys -

After speaking with Tim and figuring out exactly what I need, I ended up ordering the volcano + v6 (x2 for dual setup). I couldn't go with the Chimera because the Airwolf is set up for 3mm filament.

From pictures I've seen, it looks like the v6 mounts via a lip at the top of the heatsink. Can you guys confirm this?

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

16 (edited by heartless 2015-07-20 13:11:25)

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

josh.aeauto wrote:

Just an update guys -

After speaking with Tim and figuring out exactly what I need, I ended up ordering the volcano + v6 (x2 for dual setup). I couldn't go with the Chimera because the Airwolf is set up for 3mm filament.

From pictures I've seen, it looks like the v6 mounts via a lip at the top of the heatsink. Can you guys confirm this?

that would be correct.

the engineering drawings can be found here: http://wiki.e3d-online.com/wiki/E3D-v6_ … g_Drawings

may help you out with designing mounts to fit your machine. smile

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

17

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

Awesome, thank you!

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

18 (edited by josh.aeauto 2015-07-21 18:57:05)

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

Guys -

Getting over one hurtle at a time...

So far I'm still working on my mounting solution, although that's not an issue as of yet. I've had to find replacement connectors for my RAMBo board, which I was able to find on Newark. Right now I sortof have an issue with the heater:

I think I figured out why they only use one 25W heater powering the extruders. There is a 5 amp fuse on the RAMBo board that carries the extruder heat, logic, and fans. I'm afraid a single 40w heater will bring me close to that (I don't know how much current the fans and logic draws, but the 40w heater draws 3 amps). Either way, running both extruders at 40w is certainly out of the question. So I guess, now I'm between putting in the 25w heaters or using relays with an external power supply. What do you guys suggest?

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

19

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

Definitely don't use relays, PID switches too fast for that.

2x25w heaters rather than just the one should get you up to around 300C, but the RAMBo board can support a 10A fuse there:

http://reprap.org/wiki/Rambo

Extruders and fans, 5A 12-24V (fuse can be exchanged for up to 10A capacity) 10V-26V input voltage

I'd do a 7.5A fuse, should be plenty. Logic and fans would be under 1 amp.

20

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

elmoret wrote:

I'd do a 7.5A fuse, should be plenty. Logic and fans would be under 1 amp.

Thanks for that - I ordered an 8 amp fuse.



Here's what I ended up doing for the mounting solution. Criticism is welcome.

It's in three parts
- the "main" part where the hotend slides into, holds a part fan, and attaches to the Y rod
- a "clamp" that bolts onto the front to secure the hotend
- and a back piece that holds the fan (I removed the fans from the hotend) and attaches to the X rod.

I basically tried to copy the design of the existing mount. Unfortunately I couldn't find a way to use it for the new hotends.

Everything will be printed in polycarbonate with an infill of 50%

http://i.imgur.com/LnJyJ7k.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gUI5xpg.jpg

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

21

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

Sounds good! Also keep in mind that there's a $40 credit for any printer specific guide to a hotend install that conforms to

http://wiki.e3d-online.com/wiki/E3D-v6_ … fic_Guides

22

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

elmoret wrote:

Sounds good! Also keep in mind that there's a $40 credit for any printer specific guide to a hotend install that conforms to

http://wiki.e3d-online.com/wiki/E3D-v6_ … fic_Guides

Awesome, I'll have to take advantage of that once everything is finished.

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

23

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

Another question.

I've got a prototype of the mount printed and I placed my electronics in it. However, since the fan is farther away (and partially blocked), I'm not completely sure i'm getting enough cooling. I heated the hotend up to 350C (certainly hotter than any material I'll be dealing with, most likely) and the heatsink was warm to the touch - I'd say the 150F / 60-70C range. I read in the assembly instructions that the heatsink should be cold to the touch, but this is a much higher temperature than they were talking about. Is this okay or do I need to rework the fan position?

Thank you guys so much for your help. Couldn't do this without it.

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

24

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

Why aren't you using the included fan shrouds?

60C heatsink temps are probably OK for Polycarb or ABS. They are not OK for PLA, though you won't be printing PLA at 350C.

If you can't use the included fan/fan shroud, can you rework your shroud and/or use a more powerful fan?

25

Re: Upgrading hotend: Airwolf HD2x to E3D V6 + Volcano

I didn't think I had room for them, but I think I can move some stuff around to make room. I'll have to move the hotend 5mm away from the front of the bed so the fans won't hit the belt. There's not any room to put them on the back because of the rod.

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577