1 Topic by pirvan

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Topic: Flashing Firmware for new E3D - Is it necessary?

Everyday, I see new posts from folks getting frustrated beyond belief while attempting to install their new E3D (or similar) hot ends.  Most of these frustrations seem to be related to the flashing of new firmware into their boards.

Many of these folks, are newbies, that shouldn't be doing this type of upgrade this early.  Yes, there's a wealth of knowledge here on this board and elsewhere, but some do not have the skills or the understanding necessary to do this mod.  I said this before, and I'll say it again, unless you're having problems EXTRUDING, there's probably no reason to change your hot end.

Now, to the issue of firmware upgrade.  I don't believe there is ANY reason to flash the firmware of your printer, just to use a new E3D hot end.  As long as you can reuse your original thermistor, you can simply replace your existing hot end with an E3D or similar hot end.

BLASPHEMY !! I hear.

No, not really.  The stock firmware only cares about reading the thermistor.  There's no special code for the E3D itself, only for the new thermistor.  The only other changes to the firmware have to do with the max temps that he hot-end can handle.  The stock hot end tops out at 230°C, but the E3D can go up to 300°, and that's exactly what the other change does, it defines HEATER_MAXTEMP 300.

So these 2 changes, are only needed IF:

1.  You change the thermistor
2.  You plan or running temps above the 230° (needed for printing with nylon type filament).

So for those that are in the process of replacing their hot ends with an E3D or similar hot end, may I suggest, that you start by simply adding the new hot end and heater cartridge, but keeping the existing thermistor.  Then print with it, as is, no firmware changes.  You may find that you don't really need to modify your firmware, and you'll save yourselves a lot of grief.

If you find later that you do indeed need to increase the temps, then you can go ahead and make the changes, but try it stock first.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
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2 Reply by AZERATE

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Re: Flashing Firmware for new E3D - Is it necessary?

Ummm...yeah. Updating the firmware is crucial.
*The thermistor that comes with the E3D is more accurate and is smaller than the stock SD thermistor. You would either have to bore the thermistor housing in the heating block to make it fit, or use kapton to tape it into place like the E3D v5 was. The v6 does not need this. Due to this "fitting issue", you would not be able to swap the thermistor as easily for maintenance.
*If you attempt to use the new thermistor without updating the firmware, you will have a bad time. It will stall, fail completely, and eventually refuse to start a print. I know from experience wink
*In order to perform the final tightening of the E3D, you need to heat it up then tighten as instructed. If you do not do this you will have filament going everywhere. This needs to heat past the stock firmware's max setting.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
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3 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Flashing Firmware for new E3D - Is it necessary?

As a prior noob I once thought that everything you just stated was true.
I learned the hard way and destroyed my first E3d that I purchased directly from E3d prior to any U.S. distributors.  The assembly instructions are very clear and very much so a requirement.
I spent an awful lot of time digging through posts to create what is now the standard instructions (Printer Board) on the WIKI.  There are literally hundreds of users that have successfully flashed the firmware using those exact instructions.  Not heating the E3d to the proper temp of 290 during assembly will cause an eventual failure.  Furthermore most SD thermistors are too large to fit into the hole on the heat block of the E3d.
All of this being said please follow the assembly instructions from E3d, study the WIKI then ask questions.  But! Under no circumstances should you run an E3d without properly flashing the board to allow proper assembly.

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4 Reply by carl_m1968

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Re: Flashing Firmware for new E3D - Is it necessary?

Also keep in mind when many replace the Hotend the also replace the carriage and motor as well as feed gears. New feed gears will require you to change your extruders e-steps. Again requiring a flash unless you run repetier firmware and Rep host at which point you can alter the e-steps through the EEPROM manager.

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5 Reply by AZERATE (edited by AZERATE 2015-06-02 00:09:04)

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Re: Flashing Firmware for new E3D - Is it necessary?

carl_m1968 wrote:

New feed gears will require you to change your extruders e-steps. Again requiring a flash unless you run repetier firmware and Rep host at which point you can alter the e-steps through the EEPROM manager.

Solidoodle printers do not require new carriages for the E3D, only a new printable extruder.
Repetier EEPROM can adjust the steps in a snap no problem like you said...so no firmware to mess with in the traditional sense. smile
But with a E3D upgrade on the SD, new gears are not required unless you choose a new one like a E3D Hobb Goblin which would then indeed require a visit to EEPROMville

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

6 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Flashing Firmware for new E3D - Is it necessary?

What AZERATE said is correct - flashing is a must for the reasons he stated.

Why would we be making people do something that isn't neccessary?

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7 Reply by pirvan

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Re: Flashing Firmware for new E3D - Is it necessary?

wardjr wrote:

As a prior noob I once thought that everything you just stated was true.
I learned the hard way and destroyed my first E3d that I purchased directly from E3d prior to any U.S. distributors.  The assembly instructions are very clear and very much so a requirement.
I spent an awful lot of time digging through posts to create what is now the standard instructions (Printer Board) on the WIKI.  There are literally hundreds of users that have successfully flashed the firmware using those exact instructions.  Not heating the E3d to the proper temp of 290 during assembly will cause an eventual failure.  Furthermore most SD thermistors are too large to fit into the hole on the heat block of the E3d.
All of this being said please follow the assembly instructions from E3d, study the WIKI then ask questions.  But! Under no circumstances should you run an E3d without properly flashing the board to allow proper assembly.

First let me say that I stand by what I said.  With the possible exception of the thermistor being slightly larger and requiring a little bit of drilling, I still maintain that none of the rest of this is necessary.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

While I do appreciate the work you've done compiling all the information on how to flash the firmware and updating the Wiki, don't you think a 35 step process is a little daunting for a newbie??

FWIW, I do not have an E3D of my own, I do have an E3D clone, however, I did help a friend install an E3D v5 he bought last year at MakerFaire for his SD2 Pro.  He didn't feel like screwing around with the firmware, so we kept the original thermistor, and only swapped the hot end, heater cartridge, added Lawsy's extruder and a new PSU.  No other changes, no firmware, nothing else.

He has yet to complain about printing problems, other than him swearing off PLA because all the jams.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

8 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Flashing Firmware for new E3D - Is it necessary?

You absolutely must heat to 280C to seal the barrel and nozzle together. I would bet that is contributing to any jamming issues he's having.

And you can't heat to 280C without a firmware flash.

You could definitely argue that compiling the firmware isn't needed, someone could provide precompiled hex files. That would shorten and simplify the process dramatically.

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9 Reply by jagowilson (edited by jagowilson 2015-06-02 01:22:03)

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Re: Flashing Firmware for new E3D - Is it necessary?

pirvan wrote:

While I do appreciate the work you've done compiling all the information on how to flash the firmware and updating the Wiki, don't you think a 35 step process is a little daunting for a newbie??

Maybe so, but so what? It's through doing thing that we learn. Yes this stuff is hard and yes it does require things of you. I won't refrain from suggesting sometning that new users might find intimidating if it's a way out of their problems.

The board is hard to flash but that is Solidoodle's fault. No one else's.

10 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Flashing Firmware for new E3D - Is it necessary?

elmoret wrote:

You absolutely must heat to 280C to seal the barrel and nozzle together. I would bet that is contributing to any jamming issues he's having.

And you can't heat to 280C without a firmware flash.

Absolutely

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

wardjr's Website