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Topic: Mods... Just how much is too much?

Last night I was in the process of installing an all metal hot end on my printer, and as I was doing this, I started to take stock of what I actually had in this printer, and how many of the original SD3 parts were still installed.

The only original parts in my printer are:

Frame
NEMA14 (X drive) stepper motor
NEMA17 (Y drive) stepper motor
Limit switches
&
Metal bed frame (actually this is an upgrade from the original wood version)

Everything else is an upgrade or a mod.

What about you guys? 

We're not taking about a whole new printer you built from scratch, rather your original Solidoodle, how much of it is still in there?

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

I've only got a little more of the stock components remaining:

Frame
All motors
Limit switches
Bed holder
Aluminum bed and heater.  I actually found it to be adequate, just give it a few minutes and it gets hot enough.  But I've got a spare silicone heater too.


All X and Y motion components and belts are replaced.  New board.  Complete enclosure.  And now it gets great prints!

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

3 (edited by jagowilson 2015-05-19 21:18:19)

Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

On my SD4, the only remaining stock components are the X motor and all Z components. Everything else has been replaced.

SD2 is stock central except the carriages and hotend.

It's never too much. It just depends on if your printer is meeting your needs. For me, this makes the direct drive Y axis an essential mod - it brings your printer's precision to levels never before thought possible. A close second is a GCode fan--it really extends the kind of printing you can do and at what speeds. Third of course is the e3d, because I love their ecosystem and products.

Oh and the wood platform was better. Going to aluminum was a huge mistake! The wooden platform is much more rigid...

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

jagowilson wrote:

It's never too much. It just depends on if your printer is meeting your needs.

+1
For me:
*motors
*pulleys
*belts (though one has fishing line on X)
*Z axis entirely
Those are the only stock parts left, though I have gone direct Y drive on one.
To back up Jago, there really is no such thing as too many mods if your needs are being met. Some designs can be excessive, but they are done for a reason.
Many people (including myself) can and have badmouthed SD for numerous reasons, but at least these printers are fairly easy AND fun to mod. It was a selling point for me, and I still enjoy seeing the mods others have chosen.

So have fun and share! smile

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

jagowilson wrote:

Oh and the wood platform was better. Going to aluminum was a huge mistake! The wooden platform is much more rigid...

Really??  What exactly isn't rigid on the Alu platform?  It's not like you can flex it in any way.  Whatever flex you have is from the vertical rods, not from the platform.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

6 (edited by jagowilson 2015-05-19 23:12:18)

Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

Mine can wobble side to side. Grab it at the center and shake it left and right. If yours is like mine, there will be movement. The wooden platform simply doesn't budge on the SD2 I bought. I don't think I'd see any advantage with a bed stabilizer on the 2, but my 4 would significantly benefit. I've noticed the aluminum platform likes to shim around some during prints. You can use this shimmying to determine if you're over-extruding, even. I notice less ringing artifacts on my SD2 than my SD4, and part of it may be the bed.

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

I have found that the Solidoodle is anything but solid.
I am Running my sd mostly stock with few mods . I have glass plate on top of the kaplon tape . one of the carriages has been repaired /epoxy reinforced. And I added a well nut to the z axis.
I have been long debating what to get for a second printer. likely a kit or scratch built. If I get a kit I will likely install an ED# instead of the stock head.
Tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

jagowilson wrote:

Mine can wobble side to side. Grab it at the center and shake it left and right. If yours is like mine, there will be movement. The wooden platform simply doesn't budge on the SD2 I bought. I don't think I'd see any advantage with a bed stabilizer on the 2, but my 4 would significantly benefit. I've noticed the aluminum platform likes to shim around some during prints. You can use this shimmying to determine if you're over-extruding, even. I notice less ringing artifacts on my SD2 than my SD4, and part of it may be the bed.

The aluminum platform is machine folded and riveted, it would be nearly impossible to tweak it by hand.

As for the forces encountered inside the printer, they're minimal, considering the print head simply drags across the top, it doesn't push directly against it.

On the other hand, I can see 2 possibilities:
1.  The bushings are bad which allows you to move it side to side, or
2.  You get deflection from the vertical rods.  This is the most likely culprit.

I too can see some deflection during printing, but it's not the platform itself, it the flex in the rods.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

9 (edited by Ski52 2015-05-19 23:50:36)

Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

To keep with the OP's post...I have a simple SD2 - then I ordered the hot bed & power supply (150) - then this and that and an E3D and...and...and...

What started out to be an experiment for 499 + shipping - 550  is now well over 1000, and much grief - real PIA at times..... but along with that, MUCH learning. 

I talk to people at work (we build government(s) computing equipment (don't ask!!)) and they say 3d - what.....   Got a horse up on a lot of folks....
3D printing and it's derivatives is the future - get on the wagon - NOW!!

Ender 3 Pro

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

Mods? What are Mods? wink
No such thing as too much!

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

11 (edited by 2n2r5 2015-05-20 01:59:57)

Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

wardjr wrote:

Mods? What are Mods? wink
No such thing as too much!

No such thing as too much++

Original frame... though it has some extra holes, and z axis guide rods are original... everything else has been swapped. But, It's fun when you make something that improves the print quality in some way. I think it is the natural way of the maker community. If something can be improved then it will be.

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

2n2r5 wrote:
wardjr wrote:

Mods? What are Mods? wink
No such thing as too much!

No such thing as too much++

Original frame... though it has some extra holes, and z axis guide rods are original... everything else has been swapped. But, It's fun when you make something that improves the print quality in some way. I think it is the natural way of the maker community. If something can be improved then it will be.

Well said!!!
Nice to see you around the last few days smile

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

Thanks, still don't have a place to call home for the printer... so poking around seeing if there is anything new worth keeping up with.

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

Well if you haven't heard glass and hairspray will help your prints stick roll

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

My SD2 is still pretty much stock.  Added glass on bed, new p/s (due to old one died)  and cooling fans is about it. I have a lot of part to upgrade with, but I have a hard time tearing into a working machine.  Maybe some day I upgrade other parts.

SD2 - Glass Bed, Fans on PCB and Y motor, Custom enclosure
Slicer - Simplify3D

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

I've got a new power supply, board, wiring, z screw, carriages, rods, extruder, and hotend. Also changed the filament mount out from the back to the top and put some fireplace glass on the bed.

Of course, it doesn't run at the moment (I don't know why the Rumba is being a p.i.t.a., but I'll get it figured out), but that hasn't stopped me from modding it!

SD3 w/ RUMBA (8825s), merlin hot end (in pieces). Ender3 w/ silent board for PLA printing. Ender5 w/ silent board, e3d v6, new z lead screw, and glass bed. DiY Kossel w/ smoothieboard (in pieces). Vellman Vertex (in pieces)
Shapeoko2 router in process of being converted to laser engraver (in pieces)
Multicam 5000 series CNC Router w/ 11HP spindle, 5x10' table, and auto tool changer (in pieces)

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

Lets see... SD4 purchased mid February...

remaining stock parts...
Frame & sides (kind of a given)
aluminum bed frame & heat pad (bed itself has been replaced, see below)
All Motors are still stock
Z rods & Y rods
Belts & pulleys
stop switches

Modifications done:
all carriages replaced with Lawsy linear bearing models,
new X rods (installed with the Lawsy carriages)
Y idler pulley blocks replaced,
new E3D v6 hot end & related mount,
Rumba board,
new power supply,
front of bed stabilizer (yes, it works quite well to stop bed wiggling)
X motor fan
Heavy duty aluminum build bed - 4.75mm thick - with new leveling screws (stock screws were bent & bed was very warped)
Z height adjustment screw & mount replaced
mirrored glass build plate added

And, last, but not least - Many thanks to the great members here that have helped, either directly or indirectly, and supplied information or how-to's that have made all of these mods possible and actually functional. big_smile

There are still a few minor things I would like to do, but for the most part this has turned into a pretty good printer. Couldn't have done it without help from this great community.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

With all the mods to my SD2, I'm astonished that I still have the original hot end. Never gotten around to installing the E3D yet :-).

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

That was my latest pieces as well.

My original hot end got clogged and I took it off to clean it, but then I realized I had an all metal hot end (not E3D, but similar) that I had made an extruder for a while ago, so I decided to give it a go.

Not a big fan of it at the moment.  The fan adds to much noise, I lost about 15mm of vertical build, and I had to relocate the GCode fan behind it (I need to rethink that design).  But I'll give it a couple of weeks to see if it grows on me.  If not I'll put back the original.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

Pirvan, you don't have an E3D yet?!  Wow, with all that you have done for the community and all the mods, I just assumed you had one.  Any reason why not?  It can't be a money issue if you have done all these other mods so I'm really curious.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

21 (edited by pirvan 2015-05-20 19:19:02)

Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

It's not the money, that's for sure.  Here is my view on the E3D, which will probably not be very popular.

I've personally never had any (major) problems with the original hot end, and since I only print ABS and have no interest in printing with other materials (at the moment), I see no reason to change.

I personally don't believe it can improve your printing quality.  I know many people swear by it, but to me this is more of a placebo effect.  Most of those that went with an E3D, did so because the hype around it, and because they were having so many printing problems they believed that this would be the end all, be all, that will magically make their printer work. 

It's not.  In fact for most beginners that (the hot end) is NOT the first thing they should change, there are many other things wrong with the printer that need changing, but the print head is not one of them. 

Additionally, most of those that did do the upgrade, also changed other things at the same time (like the extruder & carriage), that they have no idea what it was that made their printer work better than before, but they think it was the hot end, because they believe in the hype.

Contrary to the popular belief HERE, the MG Plus hot end is well regarded in the RepRap community as a good workhorse.  The quality of the heater block, and the way Soliddodle chose to attach the thermistor are questionable, but the MG design is solid.  I've always had good quality prints and the problems I'm currently experiencing are due to other factors (vref or hysteresis issues for my banding, or crap filament for clogging).

In my point of view, the E3D, and other similar all-metal hot ends, are a good upgrade for the advanced users that want to print exotic materials such as nylon, metallic or similar materials that require hotter temps.  Most users though, will settle for ABS or PLA, and they really have no need for a E3D/all metal hot end, which introduces its own issues that these very same users are not really prepared to deal with like flashing firmware, re-adjusting the print bed height, Printing a new Extruder, which inevitably leads to printing  new carriage for it, which leads to the replacement of the rods, since the stock don't work well with linear bearings, etc, etc.

In fact, for most users I would recommend a "fix" to existing hot end, but only if they're having extrusion problems.  Get a new heater block and a cartridge heater.  About $6-7 worth of parts, and replace the aluminum heater block and the heater resistor with these new parts, leaving the rest intact. 10 minute fix, no firmware, not new extruder parts, no new calibrations, just plug and play.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

22 (edited by mdrVB6 2015-05-20 18:55:37)

Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

Fair enough.  I never really had issues with the stock hot end either, which I attribute to only printing ABS with it.  Agreed that the E3D is not the end all, be all magic ticket to awesome prints.  That being said, I would still think it was worth it even if the only thing it gave me was the ability to change nozzles easily.  My go to nozzle is now the 0.6 and it gets prints done noticeably faster than the 0.40.  I have all the volcano nozzles too.  To each, his own.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

The only issue I'd expect the E3D to fix for me is "chipmunk effect" I notice here: http://home.comcast.net/~tomhorsley/har … nders.html

Probably because it doesn't bother me in most cases is why I haven't gotten around to switching to the E3D.

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

I like that analogy, the "Chipmunk Effect".  Although I'm not sure that's as bad as you think.

Correct me if I'm wrong here:

You're idea is that the standard MG head creates a pool of molten plastic at the bottom (in the inner cup of the nozzle), and when you do a retraction, it still oozes out, thereby negating the retraction.

I'm not sure that's the actual case.  Yes, the molten plastic pool would want to ooze out, but it doesn't because your retraction created a vacuum that prevents it from simply oozing out in the short amount of time the print head needed to move.  Sure if you leave it there for a long time it will start to leak but not during normal printing.  The only thing you may have to play with, is the amount of your retraction, and the amount of extra (extrusion) length it needs to push out after the retraction.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

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Re: Mods... Just how much is too much?

If by chipmonk effect you are referring to the bead on the outside of your cylinder, I found that Cura eliminates that.  When it has a vase, it starts the layer around 1 nozzle diameter inside the vase, then moves it to the outside, so the blob is on the inside instead of the outside.  A genius way to eliminate the bead.  I rarely use slic3r anymore because I feel I get better prints on cura.  But I'm not trying to get this thread off topic.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed