1 (edited by metaldrgn 2015-04-22 02:06:55)

Topic: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

Took me most of today, but I finally added a duct to cool the PLA or whatever material is being extruded! I couldn't find another design so I just made my own. I will be sharing it after I modify it some. It's functional, but the opening doesn't flow enough air to cool the PLA fully.

I used the OE extruder housing to mount the E3D extruder after I found out that the one I had printed out wasn't the right one (wasn't labeled for a specific version). It's significantly lighter too; only 18grams w/ mount and magnets installed! Just the fan mount for the e3d on thingiverse is 16 grams. It also moves the CG closer to the center. This duct takes a 40mm fan by whatever depth you want as you can see!

Here are some pictures of my work (printed in PET+, awesome material BTW!):

http://soliforum.com/i/?9x36DpO.jpg
http://soliforum.com/i/?3F8oSMu.jpg

2 (edited by metaldrgn 2015-04-22 02:12:13)

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

Here is my X-axis endstop model for anyone wanting to use the OE extruder housing. Still working on the fan duct,

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:785951

3

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

I can't imagine what you are doing with that X axis endstop?

Anyway, a mod like this is on my to do list also but I will do a few things differently.  I want to use a 50 mm centrifugal fan like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-Brushless- … 33a15d6bac

and I will also modify the MK5 extruder for the E3D V6 to have it mount in a similar position to what you have done.  The fan column seems pretty wide on yours, which will result in a lower air velocity.  Mine will be a good bit smaller.  If you google the fusion3 printer, I want a nozzle fan setup similar to that one.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

4 (edited by metaldrgn 2015-04-22 16:51:04)

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

I found out the hard way that you need it so it hits the endstop switch.

http://soliforum.com/i/?1S9XCxh.jpg

As far as the fan goes, I would need to know if it was readily accessible at most stores. It does seem like a good idea, but I think the regular 40mm fan will work just fine. I may however do both designs. I'm still working on placement of the duct because with the setup you see in the picture you lose about 40mm off the Y-axis.

5 (edited by metaldrgn 2015-04-22 20:45:33)

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

What part are you talking about for fan column seeming pretty wide?

That was just the first prototype. I've added some other angles too to make the airflow less turbulent and flow more efficiently. I may move the fan below where it would hit the bracket at the cost of moving the CG forward a little.

6

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

I just thought the main body shaft/ column looked kinda wide.  I don't see why it needs to be bigger than a square cm or two.  That would keep the velocity up too.  Losing 40mm off the Y is going to be a deal breaker for most people.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

7 (edited by metaldrgn 2015-04-23 00:29:19)

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

Here's the new fan mount/duct:

http://soliforum.com/i/?8Wy3DVp.jpg
http://soliforum.com/i/?EM10sz8.jpg
http://soliforum.com/i/?sdJzp5x.jpg
http://soliforum.com/i/?Bcltygz.jpg

I have to tweak a little more on the model, but it works great! The duct is printable w/o supports, but the mount needs them. The mount uses 2 8mm diameter magnets to attach it to the extruder. I bought them at home depot. I'll post and link the files when I can.

Clearance-wise, you lose 20mm on the Y-axis now which is an improvement. X-axis has full range EXCEPT the far corner (0,0) looks like it would hit the bolt that sticks out.

8

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

mdrVB6 wrote:

I just thought the main body shaft/ column looked kinda wide.  I don't see why it needs to be bigger than a square cm or two.  That would keep the velocity up too.  Losing 40mm off the Y is going to be a deal breaker for most people.

It's better to gradually reduce the area rather than all at once.

9

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

Nice work.  I've got some airplane time ahead of me this weekend and perhaps I will work on a remix design that works with my carriages and hot end mount.

PS: make sure you print a new extruder and mount pieces now before the acrylic inevitably breaks:  http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:431363

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

10 (edited by jagowilson 2015-04-23 16:20:32)

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

There is a ton of over engineering in this thread. I whipped up this duct in 5 minutes and I've never had a problem. You're over thinking it. See attached photo. This design also doesn't sacrifice any build space.

I would throw out that acrylic extruder as well and get an Mk5 in place so you can properly mount the e3d with its groove mount.

Post's attachments

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11

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

Jago,

Any chance of sharing the STL?

SD2
E3D V6
MK5 V6

12 (edited by jagowilson 2015-04-23 17:12:29)

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

Sure, here you go. I think this is the correct version -- if this doesn't work for some reason let me know. The L-bracket is specific to lawsy's carriages, but any type of mount will work. The fan is press fit into the shroud and held to the bracket with M3 bolts--you'd be surprised how snug it actually is even though the fan has no threading. Requires a 30mm fan. If this is the correct version then there should be 2mm or so of space between the build plate and shroud when homed. The L-bracket is flimsy, but I never got around to designing anything better because it just works.

If you plan on printing PLA with the fan always-on, perform your PID calibration with the fan running, because some air will pass over the nozzle--this is intentional as my design tries to cool the extruded plastic while not blowing significantly on the part. This allows extended fan use on ABS with extreme overhangs without inducing warping. I printed PLA at speeds of 100mm/s with no issues.

Edit: STLs are not in printable orientation. Print the shroud with the opening for the fan on the bottom! If you can't print it, point a desk fan at your build plate. It takes so little time to print that it won't warp.

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LBracket.stl 122 kb, 22 downloads since 2015-04-23 

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13 (edited by metaldrgn 2015-04-23 18:16:50)

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

jagowilson wrote:

There is a ton of over engineering in this thread. I whipped up this duct in 5 minutes and I've never had a problem. You're over thinking it. See attached photo. This design also doesn't sacrifice any build space.

I would throw out that acrylic extruder as well and get an Mk5 in place so you can properly mount the e3d with its groove mount.

You may have whipped up a duct in 5 minutes, but there are plenty of shortcomings. I highly doubt it's going to flow nearly as efficiently as mine with that hard turn and mine can accommodate a larger depth fan for increased cooling where yours in limited. Also with a wide exit port like that on your duct you aren't blowing much directly on what's being extruded, but everywhere which is a waste and inefficient. Mine is printable without supports and yours isn't which saves a lot of painstaking time. My duct is also easily detachable if the extra build space is needed. I also see the potential to shave off another 10mm or so in the future. Looking at yours, you could also make it supportless had you put a little more effort into it. Maybe you should take a little more time and make yours better before you come in here thinking you know everything.

14 (edited by metaldrgn 2015-04-23 18:42:17)

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

Here is my latest duct mount. I'm still printing it, but it's close to the last pictures I posted.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:789720

15

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

mdrVB6 wrote:

Nice work.  I've got some airplane time ahead of me this weekend and perhaps I will work on a remix design that works with my carriages and hot end mount.

PS: make sure you print a new extruder and mount pieces now before the acrylic inevitably breaks:  http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:431363

Thanks. I probably will print it out and keep it on hand along with the lawsy carriages.

16 (edited by jagowilson 2015-04-23 19:03:19)

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

metaldrgn wrote:
jagowilson wrote:

There is a ton of over engineering in this thread. I whipped up this duct in 5 minutes and I've never had a problem. You're over thinking it. See attached photo. This design also doesn't sacrifice any build space.

I would throw out that acrylic extruder as well and get an Mk5 in place so you can properly mount the e3d with its groove mount.

You may have whipped up a duct in 5 minutes, but there are plenty of shortcomings. I highly doubt it's going to flow nearly as efficiently as mine with that hard turn and mine can accommodate a larger depth fan for increased cooling where yours in limited. Also with a wide exit port like that on your duct you aren't blowing much directly on what's being extruded, but everywhere which is a waste and inefficient. Mine is printable without supports and yours isn't which saves a lot of painstaking time. My duct is also easily detachable if the extra build space is needed. I also see the potential to shave off another 10mm or so in the future. Looking at yours, you could also make it supportless had you put a little more effort into it. Maybe you should take a little more time and make yours better before you come in here thinking you know everything.

In this community posts like mine are considered "constructive criticism." You can take it or leave it. It seems you have chosen to leave it which is fine. Just for clarification my shroud does not require supports if oriented as I suggested in the post above yours.

Additionally, static pressure doesn't matter as much as you think it does here. The maximum efficient velocity really isn't necessary. Thus why I used the phrase "over-engineering." I wasn't trying to insult you but I will defend my design by saying that I made a tradeoff between efficiency and space, and accommodated the lower efficiency by using a higher RPM fan with more kick. If you read about other solutions to this problem on the forums, you will see that others have done similarly.

17

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

jagowilson wrote:
metaldrgn wrote:
jagowilson wrote:

There is a ton of over engineering in this thread. I whipped up this duct in 5 minutes and I've never had a problem. You're over thinking it. See attached photo. This design also doesn't sacrifice any build space.

I would throw out that acrylic extruder as well and get an Mk5 in place so you can properly mount the e3d with its groove mount.

You may have whipped up a duct in 5 minutes, but there are plenty of shortcomings. I highly doubt it's going to flow nearly as efficiently as mine with that hard turn and mine can accommodate a larger depth fan for increased cooling where yours in limited. Also with a wide exit port like that on your duct you aren't blowing much directly on what's being extruded, but everywhere which is a waste and inefficient. Mine is printable without supports and yours isn't which saves a lot of painstaking time. My duct is also easily detachable if the extra build space is needed. I also see the potential to shave off another 10mm or so in the future. Looking at yours, you could also make it supportless had you put a little more effort into it. Maybe you should take a little more time and make yours better before you come in here thinking you know everything.

In this community posts like mine are considered "constructive criticism." You can take it or leave it. It seems you have chosen to leave it which is fine. Just for clarification my shroud does not require supports if oriented as I suggested in the post above yours.

Additionally, static pressure doesn't matter as much as you think it does here. The maximum efficient velocity really isn't necessary. Thus why I used the phrase "over-engineering." I wasn't trying to insult you but I will defend my design by saying that I made a tradeoff between efficiency and space, and accommodated the lower efficiency by using a higher RPM fan with more kick. If you read about other solutions to this problem on the forums, you will see that others have done similarly.

My post was just as constructive as yours...

End result, I get more with less by only sacrificing 20mm of print space that most people hardly use and less after future changes. You said yours takes a 30mm fan. Is that accurate or a typo?

Designing for airflow isn't negligible. I'm getting a noticeable amount of airflow more with this new design than my first one.

18

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

Thanks Jago. Why is everyone so defensive on this forum any more? I guess I am one of the few that do not want to lose the 20mm of my build platform. Mine is only 150mm and 20mm is huge comparatively. Your design was exactly what I was looking for.

SD2
E3D V6
MK5 V6

19

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

Gordym wrote:

Thanks Jago. Why is everyone so defensive on this forum any more? I guess I am one of the few that do not want to lose the 20mm of my build platform. Mine is only 150mm and 20mm is huge comparatively. Your design was exactly what I was looking for.

That was only in regard to the Solidoodle 3. I haven't looked into the dimensions, but you shouldn't lose anything with that smaller plate. You can try it out if you'd like. I'd like to know to if it has any restrictions.

I may just remodel it to use the centrifugal fan like mdrVB6 suggested to possibly gain the rest of the space back.

20

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

Gordym wrote:

Thanks Jago. Why is everyone so defensive on this forum any more?....

Just because his way works for him doesn't mean it's the best way or anyway better than mine and I hate when people come in imposing their ideas. He can go post his own thread for it instead of trying to derail mine. It's a real prick move.

21

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

I didn't see it as a "prick move", he was only offering a second option which was far less intrusive and consumed much less space. These forums and threads are public, not private. They are a place for people to gain insight on everyone's design and offer alternatives. Your fan mount is good, nothing wrong with that. It does consume a lot of space in the printer and he was simply offering a much less intrusive option. You seemed very defensive because someone offered an alternative to your solution which apparently you see as the best/only correct solution.

SD2
E3D V6
MK5 V6

22 (edited by pirvan 2015-04-29 13:59:09)

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

metaldrgn wrote:

Just because his way works for him doesn't mean it's the best way or anyway better than mine and I hate when people come in imposing their ideas. He can go post his own thread for it instead of trying to derail mine. It's a real prick move.

There are many threads here that are started by someone, only to have others chime in with their ideas.  We don't call it derailing some much as it's variations on a theme input.

Anyway, back to your design.  I did a design nearly identical to yours nearly 2 years ago, and while it does work, it also has a few disadvantages. 

http://www.soliforum.com/post/22336/#p22336

One is noise.  The air rushing through the duct creates a lot of noise, then the other, and probably the biggest, disadvantage is the fact that it hits the front of the frame, before the printhead carriage reaches the maximum forward movement.

So I turned the duct around and had it lay on top of the motor.  Mine was designed to take 30mm fans, and was quite efficient, but eventually got replaced with something simpler. You will (eventually) find that simplicity is the mother of elegance, and you'll be a better designer for it.

BTW, here is my old thread.  The pictures are gone, because the server hosting them went dead, but the STLs are still there.  You might want to take a look.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

23

Re: Fan duct/mount for E3D v6 addon w/ OE extruder housing

mdrVB6,

I think I'm going to experiment with a centrifugal fan to see if I can get that last bit of clearance I need and maybe some higher airflow to see if I can find an  max cooling point to really fine tune my prints and eliminate the need for alternative layer cooling methods like the using a prime pillar for small area layers.

pirvan,

Input noted, but I'm going forward with my design. Just because you and a few other people weren't happy with their designs, even if they were similar, doesn't mean I should just drop everything and redesign it. I can build it however I please. Simplicity is not the end all be all. Yes designs shouldn't be over complicated, but that doesn't mean in 5 minutes you could have designed something perfect that can't be refined. Everything can be improved and there is no right answer.