51

Re: Fill Issues

I agree that a lot of this is caused by backlash.  You can work around some of this by decreasing the extrusion width for the first layer.  Extrusion width is the tool path so by decreasing it will make more passes closer together.  It's not a fix more of a workaround.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

52

Re: Fill Issues

I've been trying to read as much about backlash as I can, I feel like I understand what it is and what causes it, but is there anything I can do about it, other than try to cover it up? Here is an example of what's been going on today. It comes and goes with varying degree and this is one that is really bad.
http://soliforum.com/i/?Ea5fwDm.jpg

FuseBox 1.5 CoreXY - e3dv6 - Graphic Smart Display
Solidoodle 2 - e3dv6 - Hobb Goblin - e3d Titan - lawsy carriages - Direct Drive Y Axis - T8 Z axis - OctoPi

53

Re: Fill Issues

I am assuming that is supposed to be completely infilled. The lines look good, straight and even. The only thing I see looks like you have made your overlap 0%, normally it needs to be about 15% so there is some overlap of layers. Otherwise, my only suggestion would be a higher infill %. Sometimes, if you are running a low infill (<20%) even solid surfaces can have skips and spaces.

Solidoodle 4-Mostly stock running off headless Raspberry Pi with Octoprint

54 (edited by widespreaddeadhead 2015-04-09 16:47:44)

Re: Fill Issues

Morganism wrote:

I am assuming that is supposed to be completely infilled. The lines look good, straight and even. The only thing I see looks like you have made your overlap 0%, normally it needs to be about 15% so there is some overlap of layers. Otherwise, my only suggestion would be a higher infill %. Sometimes, if you are running a low infill (<20%) even solid surfaces can have skips and spaces.

This is the bottom of a hollow, topless cube. My infill is 0%. Where is the overlap setting in slic3r?

FuseBox 1.5 CoreXY - e3dv6 - Graphic Smart Display
Solidoodle 2 - e3dv6 - Hobb Goblin - e3d Titan - lawsy carriages - Direct Drive Y Axis - T8 Z axis - OctoPi

55

Re: Fill Issues

If you're on the experimental branch of Slic3r (currently 1.2.6), it is under Advanced where the extrusion widths are. If you're on version 1.1.7 (latest stable), this option isn't adjustable. If that's your first layer I have to wonder if you just aren't printing close enough to the bed--I would get results like that until I got the nozzle distance at that "sweet spot".

56 (edited by widespreaddeadhead 2015-04-09 16:57:46)

Re: Fill Issues

jagowilson wrote:

If you're on the experimental branch of Slic3r (currently 1.2.6), it is under Advanced where the extrusion widths are. If you're on version 1.1.7 (latest stable), this option isn't adjustable. If that's your first layer I have to wonder if you just aren't printing close enough to the bed--I would get results like that until I got the nozzle distance at that "sweet spot".

This could be it, I am using a different glass bed, since I broke the original. I'll start here since I was having fine bottom layers until I swapped.

FuseBox 1.5 CoreXY - e3dv6 - Graphic Smart Display
Solidoodle 2 - e3dv6 - Hobb Goblin - e3d Titan - lawsy carriages - Direct Drive Y Axis - T8 Z axis - OctoPi

57

Re: Fill Issues

3  questions...
1. What is the extrusion width set at for first layer?
2. What is the measurement of the cube on the x axis? (actual .vs model)
3. What is the measurement of the cube on the y axis? (actual .vs model)

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

58

Re: Fill Issues

Sorry for all the nonsense. I'm getting inconsistent results using the current glass, which is the bed for my home printer i've been using as a simple replacement until we get our 12x12in glass tomorrow. Tomorrow I can run my calibration cube again, and the NF Logo.

On my glass today I was able to get solid fill using .21 for the first layer width, but when I get the normal glass tomorrow I'm probably going to change it back to 0.48 for the first test print because I wasn't having problems until today with that fill.

Again sorry, I feel like I've wasted a lot of time today.

FuseBox 1.5 CoreXY - e3dv6 - Graphic Smart Display
Solidoodle 2 - e3dv6 - Hobb Goblin - e3d Titan - lawsy carriages - Direct Drive Y Axis - T8 Z axis - OctoPi

59

Re: Fill Issues

No need to apologize we've all had those days wink

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

60 (edited by widespreaddeadhead 2015-04-10 15:28:04)

Re: Fill Issues

Wow, what a difference the updated filament settings have made. One on the left is the previous one, right is the new one.
http://soliforum.com/i/?NRl11hU.jpg

The only difference in the settings for the two are the new one is printed at 220C with correct filament settings. Still used 1 top layer with a top solid fill of .21.

The fill on the new letters is excellent, I thought they weren't supposed to be solid but no complaints here, they look great. Top fill is much better, not perfect, but close.

You might notice that on the right of the new print there is a half moon artifact in the solid top fill which I noticed when it was printing the middle layers. I found that the unused nozzle runs over the prints just melting down the tip of the top layer. Is there a way to have the unused extruder not heat up until a little before it's used? I know for some prints like spiral vases this wouldn't be ideal, but I don't need the 2nd extruder until layer 10 or so, and at 100%infill that gives it a lot of time to half melt plastic and leave those artifacts.

The only thing that is not as good in the new print versus the old print are the perimeters. However, I remember that I still left that at 1 from the cube calibration, so I can get better looking perimeters by just using more than one.

EDIT: Would the difference in the letters fill be the perimeter settings? What I'm trying to say is the new print has 1 perimeter and did an infill on the letters, the old print has more perimeters and looks like it just tried to use those... Take notice of the perimeters on the letters and the perimeter around the print to see what I'm trying to say.

FuseBox 1.5 CoreXY - e3dv6 - Graphic Smart Display
Solidoodle 2 - e3dv6 - Hobb Goblin - e3d Titan - lawsy carriages - Direct Drive Y Axis - T8 Z axis - OctoPi

61

Re: Fill Issues

Looking good!!! single perimeter is difficult so use at least 2.  If the whole thing becomes perimeters (like your first letters) that's when you end up with holes.  As far as the other nozzle goes there are a couple of things you could do.  I would just turn that one off right after the print starts and see if you get a cold extrusion error.  If not and the other extruder continues to work than manually just turn it back on when you want.  I don't know for sure if that will work as I fully suspect the cold extrusion error.  The other thing you can do is turn the temp down on that nozzle to just above that cold extrusion limit.  Then turn it up when ready.  Something like that could be patched into the g-code to happen automatically.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

62 (edited by jagowilson 2015-04-10 16:58:16)

Re: Fill Issues

Dual extruder ghosting is indeed a common problem. What would help substantially more is if you had a way to level the nozzles with each other, but the stock workbench mount doesn't allow any adjustment. If you post the GCode to that print, I can see what can be done about turning the extruder on later -- but slicers don't do this because they would then need a solid temperature curve profile for your nozzle or it wouldn't be up to temp in time. You should also consider using "retract when tool is disabled" and aee if it helps with that blue oozing. Try 2mm of disabled tool retraction. It's under printer settings in slic3r. A tall skirt can also help remove the ooze as the nozzle drags across it.

63

Re: Fill Issues

wardjr wrote:

Looking good!!! single perimeter is difficult so use at least 2.  If the whole thing becomes perimeters (like your first letters) that's when you end up with holes.  As far as the other nozzle goes there are a couple of things you could do.  I would just turn that one off right after the print starts and see if you get a cold extrusion error.  If not and the other extruder continues to work than manually just turn it back on when you want.  I don't know for sure if that will work as I fully suspect the cold extrusion error.  The other thing you can do is turn the temp down on that nozzle to just above that cold extrusion limit.  Then turn it up when ready.  Something like that could be patched into the g-code to happen automatically.

Thanks again, we wouldn't have a useable printer without everyones help. You've been especially helpful and patient with our problems and with my amateur skills.

Unrelated question, for the print quality, I understood when you posted instead of using .3 to use .2963 etc... But my question is would this information be applicable to my home printer(Prusa i3) as well? Would I need to calculate a different number?


jagowilson wrote:

Dual extruder ghosting is indeed a common problem. What would help substantially more is if you had a way to level the nozzles with each other, but the stock workbench mount doesn't allow any adjustment. If you post the GCode to that print, I can see what can be done about turning the extruder on later -- but slicers don't do this because they would then need a solid temperature curve profile for your nozzle or it wouldn't be up to temp in time. You should also consider using "retract when tool is disabled" and aee if it helps with that blue oozing. Try 2mm of disabled tool retraction. It's under printer settings in slic3r. A tall skirt can also help remove the ooze as the nozzle drags across it.

Always one step ahead! Retraction was going to be my next topic of discussion, but now that I have somewhere to start, I'll run another logo with the retraction settings on Monday.

Please don't feel like I ignored your reply about the backlash test with a cylinder, I plan on doing that on Monday also, the rest of my day today I have to print some replacement parts for a smartphone stand that didn't quite turn out so well.

FuseBox 1.5 CoreXY - e3dv6 - Graphic Smart Display
Solidoodle 2 - e3dv6 - Hobb Goblin - e3d Titan - lawsy carriages - Direct Drive Y Axis - T8 Z axis - OctoPi

64

Re: Fill Issues

Those numbers only apply to the SD and is due to their use of a 5/16th z rod.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

65

Re: Fill Issues

Just an update.

Everything is running great! I finally noticed a problem with our right front pulley on the y-axis. The screw it sits on isn't very tight to the body and spins, so when the direction changes the pulley jumps a little bit. Not sure what I can do it though. After that I just aligned the screws that adjust the pulley and re-tensioned the belts. That including our new settings have us off to an amazing start now, great looking infill, smooth lines, it really looks great.

Today is exciting. Our CAD students design CO2 race cars each year, and one of us realized the software exports STLs. So when one of the students finished their design, we opened it in RH, changed a few settings in slic3r, and we're currently just over halfway through our first print and looking good!

FuseBox 1.5 CoreXY - e3dv6 - Graphic Smart Display
Solidoodle 2 - e3dv6 - Hobb Goblin - e3d Titan - lawsy carriages - Direct Drive Y Axis - T8 Z axis - OctoPi

66 (edited by jagowilson 2015-04-13 18:56:55)

Re: Fill Issues

Can you take a photo or video of the problematic idler? You don't want those loose, for sure. The bolt should be tight in the mount via a Nyloc nut on the outside. Those are known to break so consider printing some spares at 100% infill when you get the chance. I'll look up spares for you but I need to know if your printer uses closed loop or open looped belts.

This is all assuming the front idler blocks are printed.

67 (edited by widespreaddeadhead 2015-05-13 15:12:11)

Re: Fill Issues

Sorry it took so long to get the video, it refused to upload from my phone to youtube. I uploaded from my mac at work and here it is.

https://youtu.be/xoNA70geTxs

The first part of the video is the auto level, so skip to the about 0:40 to see the problem I think is causing some of our top fill issues. The pulley jumps a little bit when the direction is changed.

FuseBox 1.5 CoreXY - e3dv6 - Graphic Smart Display
Solidoodle 2 - e3dv6 - Hobb Goblin - e3d Titan - lawsy carriages - Direct Drive Y Axis - T8 Z axis - OctoPi

68 (edited by jagowilson 2015-05-13 16:31:25)

Re: Fill Issues

Just tighten down that nut a little more. Pliers on the nut and an M5 Allen key in the idler. How easily can you deflect that idler by pushing toward the inside of the frame? You don't want it moving easily.

69

Re: Fill Issues

I can push on it pretty easily to get it to move just a bit.

FuseBox 1.5 CoreXY - e3dv6 - Graphic Smart Display
Solidoodle 2 - e3dv6 - Hobb Goblin - e3d Titan - lawsy carriages - Direct Drive Y Axis - T8 Z axis - OctoPi

70

Re: Fill Issues

Got it all tighter up so that it doesn't jump on each direction change. Printing a test piece now and will post before and after
results.

FuseBox 1.5 CoreXY - e3dv6 - Graphic Smart Display
Solidoodle 2 - e3dv6 - Hobb Goblin - e3d Titan - lawsy carriages - Direct Drive Y Axis - T8 Z axis - OctoPi

71

Re: Fill Issues

Not good. Didn't take a pic but the top solid fill is just a grid pattern with spacing between each thread. Something seems amiss with our whole set up. I think I'm just going to pretend I just received the machine today, and run every single calibration test again. Because not many others are mentioning this problem, I have a feeling I might've messed up some of the calibration the first time I went through it.

FuseBox 1.5 CoreXY - e3dv6 - Graphic Smart Display
Solidoodle 2 - e3dv6 - Hobb Goblin - e3d Titan - lawsy carriages - Direct Drive Y Axis - T8 Z axis - OctoPi

72

Re: Fill Issues

What slicer and version are you using?
Sounds like a top layer extrusion width issue.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

73

Re: Fill Issues

1.1.7
I've tried several extrusion widths, from default to 0.48, from 0.21 to even 0.52. This last time I tried slowing everything down to 50% then 25% to see if we're running too fast but same issue. I have this sinking feeling my e-steps are off. Also I want to post a pic of our awful looking honeycomb infill. My last dual print failed because the 2 extruder clogged before use, I'll run a quick one shortly for a pic.

Also worth noting, although not sure it makes a difference, we updated the slicer that same with RH for Mac, because it was so outdated.

FuseBox 1.5 CoreXY - e3dv6 - Graphic Smart Display
Solidoodle 2 - e3dv6 - Hobb Goblin - e3d Titan - lawsy carriages - Direct Drive Y Axis - T8 Z axis - OctoPi

74

Re: Fill Issues

I am not a fan of that version and prefer 1.0.0RC3.
I have experienced similar issues with 1.1.7

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

75

Re: Fill Issues

wardjr wrote:

I am not a fan of that version and prefer 1.0.0RC3.
I have experienced similar issues with 1.1.7

We were running the older Silc3r when we first got it so I went back to check most of our prints from that time, and they have much better top solid fill. Will try this and test on, thanks a million!

FuseBox 1.5 CoreXY - e3dv6 - Graphic Smart Display
Solidoodle 2 - e3dv6 - Hobb Goblin - e3d Titan - lawsy carriages - Direct Drive Y Axis - T8 Z axis - OctoPi