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Topic: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

I have an interest problem I installed the lawsy carriage with out too much problem , but now my  y-axis jumps about every 50mm. It looks almost like a bent rod but I checked it and its are perfectly straight, so I checked the teeth on all my pulleys and they all match up perfectly they only thing I can figure is that I bought MK belts on line. If someone can give any ideas it would be appreciated. Also where can I find exact matches for SD4 belts It would be appreciated, I dread having to go through solidoodle after my last experience!

SD4 with E3D V6.

Those who don't know ask, those who don't care comment,  those who comment without answers  hide ignorance for fear of asking. Be fearless!

2

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

An easy fix and huge upgrade would be to switch to fishing line.  Have a search smile

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

3

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

With the belts off does it hit both idlers at the front? It sounds like the rods got a little screwey when you inserted them into the carriage.

Fishing line is cheap and definitely an upgrade. So much smoother than the timing belts...

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Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

Not sure what i need for fishing line??

In any case the rods seem to run smooth when doing the tensioning. And without load the y-motor pulley tends to feel a bump at about every 50mm like if the belts were skipping a tooth.

Ps. Wouldn't fishing line have streching and slipping issues??

SD4 with E3D V6.

Those who don't know ask, those who don't care comment,  those who comment without answers  hide ignorance for fear of asking. Be fearless!

5

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

Skipping a tooth is possible but I think something is out of alignment or out of round and binding the back rod. Check those two pulleys for roundness. Does the rod spin freely with no belts on it?

Wardjr is the guy to talk to about fishing line but it's tied onto bolts and it wraps around the drive pulley and passes over the idler pulley. You run it tight enough that slipping is not possible. Even at high tension everything is surprisingly easy to move.

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Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

Every 50mm is approximately every turn of the pulley - check they really are free and running true, and the belt isn't rubbing on the flange too much.

Belts should be 0.08" (2.032mm) pitch MXL, 1/4" (6.35mm) wide for the stock solidoodle pulleys.

This is a really hard one to work out without being there - any chance you could video the thing skipping around, close ups of all the pulleys, carriages, whole overview, and upload it to youtube? Big ask I know, but otherwise the best we can do is stab in the dark. It would also help others perhaps trying to diagnose their own issues, being able to compare to yours. smile

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

7

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

I have had one SD3 do exactly what you describe.  It seemed to be caused by deflection and misalignment of the y-axis drive rod.  Lube the bushings and carefully calibrate and align that axis.  For that particular machine I had to start by running the belts relatively loose.  Once I got the belt (right side) to stop skipping I started to address the backlash caused by the loose belts.
Very slowly I managed to get it to work acceptably. 
Replacing the bushings with bearings and adding pillow blocks made a huge difference on that machine.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

8

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

wardjr wrote:

Replacing the bushings with bearings and adding pillow blocks made a huge difference on that machine.

I never would have thought... big_smile

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

9

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

Ok so here are a couple of videos, I'm thinking I may have jammed up the Y-Motor while installing the carriages.

http://youtu.be/GKEF_RKFPcY

http://youtu.be/tDv8N0yaF5c

SD4 with E3D V6.

Those who don't know ask, those who don't care comment,  those who comment without answers  hide ignorance for fear of asking. Be fearless!

10

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

lueman wrote:

Ok so here are a couple of videos, I'm thinking I may have jammed up the Y-Motor while installing the carriages.

http://youtu.be/GKEF_RKFPcY

http://youtu.be/tDv8N0yaF5c

You have the videos marked as private

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

11

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

ok they should be good now

SD4 with E3D V6.

Those who don't know ask, those who don't care comment,  those who comment without answers  hide ignorance for fear of asking. Be fearless!

12

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

lueman wrote:

ok they should be good now

OK so the drive belt pulleys to the motor should be moved as close to the motor as possible.  I would even flip the one on the motor to move the belt even closer.  That belt is plenty (too) loose but is perfect for what you are trying to fix just note that it will have to be tightened. 
What belt is skipping (left, right or drive) and roughly at what position front to back when it skips?

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

13

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

Just re watched the videos if the only belt that is skipping is the motor drive belt.  Just loosen the motor and slide it down to tighten the belt.  Do this after my previous suggestion.  Don't tighten it too much or it will deflect the drive rod.   Make sure you get a little oil in those bushings as well.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

14

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

wardjr wrote:

Just re watched the videos if the only belt that is skipping is the motor drive belt.  Just loosen the motor and slide it down to tighten the belt.  Do this after my previous suggestion.  Don't tighten it too much or it will deflect the drive rod.   Make sure you get a little oil in those bushings as well.

+1
That small drive belt seems very loose at around the 0:38 second mark in the video...

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

15

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

The videos were after several hours of frustrating rework. I tried loosening, tightening, I even replaced the bushings. If you notice it only happens under power , they run smooth when I push them along , I'm ordering a new stepper from Solidoodle just in case I ruined the motor shaft. I'm really at a loss.

SD4 with E3D V6.

Those who don't know ask, those who don't care comment,  those who comment without answers  hide ignorance for fear of asking. Be fearless!

16

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

lueman wrote:

The videos were after several hours of frustrating rework. I tried loosening, tightening, I even replaced the bushings. If you notice it only happens under power , they run smooth when I push them along , I'm ordering a new stepper from Solidoodle just in case I ruined the motor shaft. I'm really at a loss.

Don't waste money on an SD replacement.  You can get much better motors for less a lot quicker.  Ask for links but that is not your problem so lets fix that first.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

17

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

Ok great, anyone with suggestions welcome to chime in.

SD4 with E3D V6.

Those who don't know ask, those who don't care comment,  those who comment without answers  hide ignorance for fear of asking. Be fearless!

18

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

Many of us want to help but let's get on the same page.  First things first, flip that pulley on the motor and get that belt closer to the motor.  This will create a much shorter lever arm and help prevent deflection.  Then tighten that belt like we suggested and report back. 
The distraction of a bigger/better motor will not change the fact that your belt is skipping.

I can assure you that we will get your problems solved.  Put that printer in the hands of any of the experienced users that have replied and they would have that thing printing perfectly in less than 20 minutes.
What I am saying is help us help you by communicating clearly and staying on task.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

19

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

Ok Any Ideas would be Appreciated.

SD4 with E3D V6.

Those who don't know ask, those who don't care comment,  those who comment without answers  hide ignorance for fear of asking. Be fearless!

20

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

Did you flip the pulley and tighten the belt?

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

21 (edited by IronMan 2015-03-27 00:00:04)

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

lueman wrote:

Ok Any Ideas would be Appreciated.

The advice based on your situation has been given above by some very experienced members.  Please take these steps and implement them as wardjr has outlined.

I know it can be frustrating...but right now, until you follow the very good advice above, further input will confuse the matter...

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

22

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

Wow wardjr you said 10 min to fix? With your suggestions I got it under 9, Adjusted the the direction I re-tensioned , All seemed to work, I'm running a new fan mount to test. Thanks for the info, I'll let you know the results when done.

SD4 with E3D V6.

Those who don't know ask, those who don't care comment,  those who comment without answers  hide ignorance for fear of asking. Be fearless!

23

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

I'm just happy to hear you seem to have it fixed.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

24

Re: Belts jump after lawsy carriage mod

Just wanted to thank everyone for all the help. Im getting .1mm resultion consistantly! Again many thaks!

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SD4 with E3D V6.

Those who don't know ask, those who don't care comment,  those who comment without answers  hide ignorance for fear of asking. Be fearless!