1 Topic by Boz (edited by Boz 2015-03-01 20:33:05)

  • Boz
  • Boz
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-03-07
  • Posts: 112

Topic: Late Layer Shift/Thermal Camera Pictures

I've started having an issue lately with later layer shift in the y-axis.  It only happens towards the back of the printer, and it only happens with prints in excess of 5 hours.  It is becoming annoying trying to troubleshoot what is wrong, and I'm thinking that I only have one option of what it could be.  Here's a picture of some recent prints, same filament:

http://i.imgur.com/xc3arvG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/3TmVU8R.jpg

I have checked everything on the wiki here and I think that the only thing that it could be is a bad stepper chip.  It explains the single direction skip, and it also explains why this came about suddenly after working for so long.  I plan on getting a replacement stepper driver to hopefully fix this problem.

Has anyone else experienced this?  Am I on the right track?

Bonus thermal camera images:

http://i.imgur.com/052xPkR.jpg http://i.imgur.com/DsSLBKr.jpg

2 Reply by wardjr

  • wardjr
  • wardjr
  • Moderator
  • Offline
  • From: Minnesota
  • Registered: 2013-06-10
  • Posts: 5,624

Re: Late Layer Shift/Thermal Camera Pictures

If the timeframe that it skips is approximately the same that would indicate that it is heat related.  For troubleshooting purposes try adding additional cooling to both the motor and the driver.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

wardjr's Website

3 Reply by AZERATE

  • AZERATE
  • AZERATE
  • PRINTiT
  • Offline
  • From: Chicago
  • Registered: 2013-11-28
  • Posts: 2,077

Re: Late Layer Shift/Thermal Camera Pictures

+1
I had shifts on large prints especially on skulls and the likes until I added more fans than The Beatles. smile

On a side note, Pololu has some pretty good stuff. I've been running on their DRV8825 for some time (on E only) with spectacular results.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

4 Reply by Boz

  • Boz
  • Boz
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-03-07
  • Posts: 112

Re: Late Layer Shift/Thermal Camera Pictures

Thank you for the tips wardjr.  I currently have a 40mm fan on both the X and Y axis motors (20mmx40mm on the Y-axis motor) and a 80mm fan directly on the electronics on the back.  I did buy a motor heatsink to help though.

My printer is enclosed, and typically reaches around 100°F (38°C) at the most.  I thought that heat was the problem, but I'm just not sure how much more cooling I can do for the motors.  I will try to incorporate the heatsink on the Y-axis motor, but that will be a little difficult due to how it is mounted.  I'm not getting stepping on the X-axis motor in the same manner, and I thought that I read somewhere that it is also pushed to its limits.  Shouldn't that also be skipping when it gets hot?

I will try to also get a 7 hour print going and measure the temperatures of the motors with the thermal camera to see how it goes.  It should give some good insights on what is happening.  I'll report back when I know more.

Pictures of my cooling fans below:
40x40x10 fan on X-axis, 40x40x20 fan on Y-axis
Y-axis fan is in this friction fit mount.
http://i.imgur.com/zybAt9h.jpg

80mm fan on the electronics
http://i.imgur.com/3uyvQjB.jpg

5 Reply by wardjr

  • wardjr
  • wardjr
  • Moderator
  • Offline
  • From: Minnesota
  • Registered: 2013-06-10
  • Posts: 5,624

Re: Late Layer Shift/Thermal Camera Pictures

Good luck it is possible that the driver is failing to eliminate it just swap it with one of the others.
If the motor is failing there isn't much more you can do but replace it.
It'll be interesting to see the thermal images.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

wardjr's Website

6 Reply by Boz (edited by Boz 2015-03-01 20:32:34)

  • Boz
  • Boz
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-03-07
  • Posts: 112

Re: Late Layer Shift/Thermal Camera Pictures

I'm currently printing a 7 1/2 hour print vase to see if it shifts, but I've swapped out the X and Y drivers to see if it shifts in the X direction this time.

I've discovered some interesting things with this thermal camera.  It seems that my Z driver gets very hot when it first starts up (170°F or 77°C) and then cools back down once it has started running to about 130°F (54°C).  Seen here:

http://i.imgur.com/mmtvqAW.jpg http://i.imgur.com/rgAVkKX.jpg

The other stepper drivers show no noticeable heat.

The X and Y motors started out rather cool, but the X is getting up to 120°F (48°C) while the Y is around 107°F (42°C).  I have a heatsink to install on the X that should hopefully prevent this from happening.  I'm wondering if the driver is causing more heat to the X now that I swapped them from Y to X.  I did not test it all with the original setup to know.

X Axis Motor:
http://i.imgur.com/GBxvGV4.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ba8UCIJ.jpg

Y Axis Motor:
http://i.imgur.com/G5JniPy.jpg http://i.imgur.com/2QMAwAz.jpg

The ambient temperature in the box usually gets to around 100°F (38°C), so it looks like the Y is staying fairly cool while the X is a good bit over ambient.

Also, if there is anything else that anyone would like to see with the thermal camera, I would be glad to take some pictures.  Thanks for your help.

Edit:

I just checked on the Z motor as well, and it is running hot too.  See below:

http://i.imgur.com/naoCm4T.jpg

7 Reply by wardjr

  • wardjr
  • wardjr
  • Moderator
  • Offline
  • From: Minnesota
  • Registered: 2013-06-10
  • Posts: 5,624

Re: Late Layer Shift/Thermal Camera Pictures

I love that camera could you get a bunch of shots of my entire printer tongue

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

wardjr's Website

8 Reply by Boz (edited by Boz 2015-03-01 22:22:15)

  • Boz
  • Boz
  • Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2013-03-07
  • Posts: 112

Re: Late Layer Shift/Thermal Camera Pictures

The print finished with no noticeable shifts.  My layer adhesion is terrible, and I'm getting bad layer delamination that caused the print to be very fragile vertically.  The top actually popped off rather easily.  I'm guessing that this is a extrusion temperature problem, because my printer's ambient air is at least 100°F.  I will give it the acetone treatment to hopefully solve that.

http://i.imgur.com/TBfKipv.jpg

Also, I'm sorry that I can't loan the camera out!  I'm only borrowing it for the weekend.