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Topic: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

Finally upgraded to acme rods, prints are waay better than the stock ordbot rods at RRD.
There is some clear backlash in these pix and I have put through a robotdigg order of the anti-nuts, but some parts in the print have me confused.
Specifically the part towards the tip area where the part gets awfully liney following the extruded little nub things. These bits have fairly heavy support material which makes me think maybe the support is causing weirdness, but I'm not sure.

Any advice is always much appreciated!

http://i.imgur.com/FJxVQMF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ABw1xW9.jpg

This is a crowd funding thing that I'm running: http://www.gofundme.com/bvi140 It's for pretty selfish reasons tongue

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Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

Did you experience anything like this before the upgrade?

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

3

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

IronMan wrote:

Did you experience anything like this before the upgrade?

Pretty sure it did turn up a bit before the upgrade, but it seems more pronounced now. Might just be the fact that its a lot more accurate now so it stands out further.

This is a crowd funding thing that I'm running: http://www.gofundme.com/bvi140 It's for pretty selfish reasons tongue

4

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

Looks like you have a little chatter most likely caused by some over extrusion or from hitting the blobs.  The blobs look to be moisture in the filament.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

5

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

wardjr wrote:

Looks like you have a little chatter most likely caused by some over extrusion or from hitting the blobs.  The blobs look to be moisture in the filament.

Oh the blobs are just removed support material, its mainly the liney stuff thats problematic.

This is a crowd funding thing that I'm running: http://www.gofundme.com/bvi140 It's for pretty selfish reasons tongue

6

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

"Liney things"?  Is that a technical term I am unaware of wink

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

7

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

wardjr wrote:

"Liney things"?  Is that a technical term I am unaware of wink

Yes, of course. Did you think I'd just make up random useless terms?

http://i.imgur.com/6z0uuXJ.jpg

This is a crowd funding thing that I'm running: http://www.gofundme.com/bvi140 It's for pretty selfish reasons tongue

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Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

No need to repeat the picture I know what you were referring to.
For the record I like the new term wink
I don't know what's causing it past it being a ripple effect from the nozzle bumping into the layer below.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

9

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

It looks to me like it occurs upon layer changes (changes in/new faces). If so, I'm dealing with the same thing. Maybe belt tension?
If it is a similar problem, Slic3r shows everything smooth in preview, but execution is another story...

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

10

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

AZERATE wrote:

It looks to me like it occurs upon layer changes (changes in/new faces). If so, I'm dealing with the same thing. Maybe belt tension?
If it is a similar problem, Slic3r shows everything smooth in preview, but execution is another story...

Yep, slic3r shows flat as a tac and indeed it does not execute that way. I suppose fiddling with the belt tensions a bit would be a good plan. I'll be printing for about the next week non-stop so I'll be sure to show the results if they turn out better with the tension changes.

This is a crowd funding thing that I'm running: http://www.gofundme.com/bvi140 It's for pretty selfish reasons tongue

11

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

Ha! Belts are SOOO 2013 wink

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

12

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

Please do. I will do the same. Race to the solution!!!
Loser owes the winner a kangaroo big_smile

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

13

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

wardjr wrote:

Ha! Belts are SOOO 2013 wink

Has anyone done the string thing on an Ordbot though? I sooo don't have the presence of mind to work it all out tongue

AZERATE, yep. I'll first try just eliminating the support material on one of the parts then get on to the tension settings.

This is a crowd funding thing that I'm running: http://www.gofundme.com/bvi140 It's for pretty selfish reasons tongue

14

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

Serin wrote:
wardjr wrote:

Ha! Belts are SOOO 2013 wink

Has anyone done the string thing on an Ordbot though? I sooo don't have the presence of mind to work it all out tongue

AZERATE, yep. I'll first try just eliminating the support material on one of the parts then get on to the tension settings.

Maybe we could talk IronMan into trying line on his Ord.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

15

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

wardjr wrote:
Serin wrote:
wardjr wrote:

Ha! Belts are SOOO 2013 wink

Has anyone done the string thing on an Ordbot though? I sooo don't have the presence of mind to work it all out tongue

AZERATE, yep. I'll first try just eliminating the support material on one of the parts then get on to the tension settings.

Maybe we could talk IronMan into trying line on his Ord.

Muauahahahhahah! Yeees.

This is a crowd funding thing that I'm running: http://www.gofundme.com/bvi140 It's for pretty selfish reasons tongue

16

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

I experience this same thing, I assume it is slop from talking to AZERATE and wardjr but I'm in the process of making my drive system more rigid/lash free so if I make any progress I'll let you guys know!!

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Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

jagowilson wrote:

I experience this same thing, I assume it is slop from talking to AZERATE and wardjr but I'm in the process of making my drive system more rigid/lash free so if I make any progress I'll let you guys know!!

So what you're saying is there's no hope? tongue

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

18 (edited by jagowilson 2015-02-21 04:38:36)

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

well if i can quit breaking rumbas and thermistors but whether or not you have that much faith is up to you tongue

edit: jeff receives 1k gold! super excite

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Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

I can safely say that loosening off the X belt didn't do the job...
Again seems to extend from an extrusion in the surface.
Please do excuse me whilst I beat my head against the keyboard.

http://i.imgur.com/IUoH3EA.jpg

This is a crowd funding thing that I'm running: http://www.gofundme.com/bvi140 It's for pretty selfish reasons tongue

20

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

At first it reminds me of harmonic "ringing" from high acceleration but ultimately I think this is mimicking that by first being slight overextrusion that gets echoed up the layers and from side to side as the extruder is bumping into the ridges pushed up when the plastic is being extruded right next to the last line with nowhere to go but out - then it gets squished up into a ridge by the extruder putting down the next line beside it.  This used to happen to me pretty often on my first few layers and then on flat tops.

Maybe consider either dropping your extrusion multiplier (or increasing filament diameter) OR maybe change the top solid infill in Slic3r advanced. I increased mine a little to 105% to fill some small gaps that I didn't want.  You may want to decrease yours and see what happens.

is the kangaroo still available?

SD3, RUMBA, 360W power, ABS: Glass bed + Aquanet Extra Super Hold Hairspray, Anti-backlash Z spanner, Repetier Host + Slic3r

21

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

wardjr wrote:
Serin wrote:
wardjr wrote:

Ha! Belts are SOOO 2013 wink

Has anyone done the string thing on an Ordbot though? I sooo don't have the presence of mind to work it all out tongue

AZERATE, yep. I'll first try just eliminating the support material on one of the parts then get on to the tension settings.

Maybe we could talk IronMan into trying line on his Ord.

Hah!  GT20 is here to stay

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

22

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

You know you want fishline, it's the perfect compliment to that new AC bed heater tongue

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

23

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

There is enough other ringing in the print, I wonder if that has something to do with it.  Have you tried half speed, or messing with acceleration/jerk?

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Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

Its running at a very slow speed at the moment, about 80mm/s is the fastest speed, but I'll turn it down a bit to test it.
Acceleration is at 3000 in the EEPROM, jer X-Y is at 20 and Z is at 0.40. I've not fiddled with those settings before, any suggested numbers?

This is a crowd funding thing that I'm running: http://www.gofundme.com/bvi140 It's for pretty selfish reasons tongue

25

Re: Is this all backlash or am I missing something else?

So I loosened my belts a touch (after tightening with disaster) and I finally completed a print.
Because I use linear bearings, it may very well be some of the balls binding (I gave the cheap Chinese ones a chance, sue me!), but I cannot confirm that 100% until I get some better quality ones in.

Another idea, during a discussion I had with jagowilson, he said Slic3r may create shifts upon layer changes even if it shows proper in 3D view.
I have nothing to add to Ian's recommendation. Just wanted to post in hopes it may help another.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!