51

Re: Glass Bed

Very impressive danny. You ever wanted to sell those I imagine you'd get quite a few  takers. I know id be interested.  Last time I tried drilling glass left a lot to be desired

52

Re: Glass Bed

Danny, where did you get your nichrome?  Was it teflon insulated, or did you crimp/solder the nichome to separate wires like the heat core does?

53

Re: Glass Bed

I like that a lot Danny, I think I am going to replicate it, with one minor change. Using Kapton tape to electrically insulate the original aluminium bed from the wire. But doing the same process. That way I can still keep my separate glass sheets easily.

Lead Programmer & Co-Owner of Camshaft Software - Creators of Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game

54

Re: Glass Bed

Why did you elect to go for a delicate layer of kapton over a layer of abs/pva glue? seems to defeat some of the purpose IMO

55

Re: Glass Bed

I have found this stuff on ebay: Conductive Pad

I am thinking about using 2 layers of it to sandwich the nichrome wire to effectively make my own heat mat, then place that between glass and alu of the original bed. Create a new bit of loom going back to the Sanguino. So if it doesn't work, or fails I can still go back to using the stock heating set-up, and keep using the stock thermistor.

Lead Programmer & Co-Owner of Camshaft Software - Creators of Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game

56

Re: Glass Bed

caswal wrote:

I have found this stuff on ebay: Conductive Pad

I am thinking about using 2 layers of it to sandwich the nichrome wire to effectively make my own heat mat, then place that between glass and alu of the original bed. Create a new bit of loom going back to the Sanguino. So if it doesn't work, or fails I can still go back to using the stock heating set-up, and keep using the stock thermistor.


Looks promising!!!! I might give that a go myself or at least something similar ;-) I see they have smaller bits of the same stuff cheaper ---> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1000Pcs-Sili … 5d3717837e about .02/sqin vs. .10/sqin. too bad they had to chop it too the TO220 size first :-)

Look forward to seeing how your setup works Caswal, I will try to get something going myself but am somewhat short on time these days... but you never know sometimes I just stick to something til it's completed no matter who or what tries to interfere ;-)))

57

Re: Glass Bed

IanJohnson wrote:

Danny, where did you get your nichrome?  Was it teflon insulated, or did you crimp/solder the nichome to separate wires like the heat core does?

I got it from ebay, it's a couple of quid for a 5 meter roll. (more than enough!)

caswal wrote:

I like that a lot Danny, I think I am going to replicate it, with one minor change. Using Kapton tape to electrically insulate the original aluminium bed from the wire. But doing the same process. That way I can still keep my separate glass sheets easily.

The only reason I didn't do it like this was that I could only get 6mm pyrex sheet. keeping the original bed would have meant having to get a longer z screw, or putting a stand-off on the existing one, or flipping it over.

if you can get thinner glass, (easy if you're not bothered about heat safe glass) then there is no reason that you couldn't/shouldn't keep the original bed.

58

Re: Glass Bed

ErroneousBosch wrote:

Why did you elect to go for a delicate layer of kapton over a layer of abs/pva glue? seems to defeat some of the purpose IMO

good question.

fro me the glass bed was only about getting the bed to be flat.
the original aluminium bed was so warped that I could have the extruder crashing into the bed at the front left corner, and so far away from the bed at the rear left and front right corners that plastic wasn't applied properly to the bed and wouldn't stick properly.
Weirdly, this only started happening after having the machine for a few weeks, I used a dial caliper and confirmed that it was warped, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't that warped from the factory. (either that or I just didn't notice when printing small things).

the roll of kapton that I got was £15 including delivery, and is enough to cover the bed 100 times over, as I already had this, wasting it seemed silly, (and it's cheap enough!)

I tried hair spray, I found that the "Tesco Frim hold" spray, (sold in a blue can in the UK) wasn't very good -much worse than kapton. since that was the only hair spray in the house I thought that I wouldn't bother going out to search for more plastic friendlier hair sprays.
Also, there is enough weird smells coming from the machine when it's in use.

I didn't use PVA because of the drying time needed. also there are no instructions for a consistent wash at the moment, and I had a lot of stuff to print before Christmas and didn't want to be constantly re-applying wash to the bed and having to wait for it to dry.


it's something that I'll think about trying in the new year smile

59

Re: Glass Bed

Cool, thanks for the answer. Sorry to hear your bed was warped.

I did my PVA wash with the bed hot on my glass bed. I ramped it up to about 80-90, then painted on the dilute mixture. The water cooks off, leaving the PVA dry within a minute or so. I then took a little fine grit sandpaper and just lightly roughed it up. I seem to get pretty good sticking, though I do run my bed at 100. Prints pop off all by themselves as the bed cools.

I am thinking about picking up some nichrome though now and aiming for something like what you did, since I wonder if my bed is heating evenly because I occasionally have a corner lift a little. It only really happened on one part with a fairly small footprint; it may be that my printer was slightly not level, and if I had been able to find where in slic3r 0.9.8 to turn on a raft I would have to help stick the print down (anyone know where?). I also run a fairly thin sheet of glass (~2.5mm), so a thicker sheet might even out heating a little better.

Glad the new bed is working out for you! smile

60

Re: Glass Bed

Do people seem to have better luck with PVA, ABS glue or Hairspray on a glass bed? Lately my PVA has been letting me down, even after a thorough Isopropyl cleaning.

61

Re: Glass Bed

Hairspray works really well for myself. Also a note for anyone who might care. Charcoal drawing fixative, is the same as Hairspray, only fragrance free but more expensive. It's a trick my dad used, to not pay the more expensive prices for the fixative.

Lead Programmer & Co-Owner of Camshaft Software - Creators of Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game

62

Re: Glass Bed

caswal wrote:

Hairspray works really well for myself. Also a note for anyone who might care. Charcoal drawing fixative, is the same as Hairspray, only fragrance free but more expensive. It's a trick my dad used, to not pay the more expensive prices for the fixative.

Ha, never thought of that.  I used to use the fixative on vellum printouts all the time.  Probably still have a can around here somewhere.

63

Re: Glass Bed

ErroneousBosch wrote:

Do people seem to have better luck with PVA, ABS glue or Hairspray on a glass bed? Lately my PVA has been letting me down, even after a thorough Isopropyl cleaning.


I was having some warping problems with large parts printed on glass with hairspray.  I switched to ABS glue and it seemed to solve all of my problems. My only complaint is that it is very messy to work with and a pain to clean up.

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

64 (edited by DePartedPrinter 2013-01-02 20:29:48)

Re: Glass Bed

DePartedPrinter wrote:
ErroneousBosch wrote:

Do people seem to have better luck with PVA, ABS glue or Hairspray on a glass bed? Lately my PVA has been letting me down, even after a thorough Isopropyl cleaning.


I was having some warping problems with large parts printed on glass with hairspray.  I switched to ABS glue and it seemed to solve all of my problems. My only complaint is that it is very messy to work with and a pain to clean up.


I found that the easiest way to clean the bed was to let my solidoodle do a self-clean and print a .3 layer over the entire bed which I then peel off, taking with it, all of the leftover ABS glue.

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

65

Re: Glass Bed

My main problem has been parts coming loose, especially anything with a small footprint. . I will clean off the glass and try hairspray, failing that, abs glue.

66

Re: Glass Bed

DePartedPrinter wrote:

I found that the easiest way to clean the bed was to let my solidoodle do a self-clean and print a .3 layer over the entire bed which I then peel off, taking with it, all of the leftover ABS glue.

That sounds mind numbingly slow.

67

Re: Glass Bed

cmetzel wrote:
DePartedPrinter wrote:

I found that the easiest way to clean the bed was to let my solidoodle do a self-clean and print a .3 layer over the entire bed which I then peel off, taking with it, all of the leftover ABS glue.

That sounds mind numbingly slow.

10ish minutes or so.  Faster than my self cleaning oven...

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

68

Re: Glass Bed

ErroneousBosch wrote:

My main problem has been parts coming loose, especially anything with a small footprint. . I will clean off the glass and try hairspray, failing that, abs glue.


how small of a footprint do the parts have?

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

69

Re: Glass Bed

This printed at .75, even with a 3mm brim

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:39075

70

Re: Glass Bed

ErroneousBosch wrote:

This printed at .75, even with a 3mm brim

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:39075


I can almost guarantee the ABS glue will work for that.  Try the hairspray first though.

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

71

Re: Glass Bed

I have actually  have created a glass bed that has nichrome wire sandwiched between 2 sheets of glass.

The nichrome wire that I used is too thick I think.  It is 1 Ohm per foot, and I used 2 6 foot sections to get to 3 Ohms (I am at about 3.3 Ohms).

I can't get the bed to heat up over about 55C though.  I tried using an electric train transformer to power just the heater, but even that did not heat things up much.  I was thinking of trying thinner nichrome that is used for foam cutters, and then seeing if I can power the bed with a transformer.

Right now I am using regular glass, but I have some tempered glass coming in the next few days that I'll be using instead of the regular glass.

I like to call my printer my Frankendoodle printer.

I'll post some photos once I've got things tweaked some more.

72

Re: Glass Bed

DePartedPrinter wrote:
ErroneousBosch wrote:

This printed at .75, even with a 3mm brim

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:39075


I can almost guarantee the ABS glue will work for that.  Try the hairspray first though.

Yeah I think the PVA just doesn't have enough stick. I'll try hairspray this weekend.

73

Re: Glass Bed

perlguy wrote:

I have actually  have created a glass bed that has nichrome wire sandwiched between 2 sheets of glass.

The nichrome wire that I used is too thick I think.  It is 1 Ohm per foot, and I used 2 6 foot sections to get to 3 Ohms (I am at about 3.3 Ohms).

I can't get the bed to heat up over about 55C though.  I tried using an electric train transformer to power just the heater, but even that did not heat things up much.  I was thinking of trying thinner nichrome that is used for foam cutters, and then seeing if I can power the bed with a transformer.

Right now I am using regular glass, but I have some tempered glass coming in the next few days that I'll be using instead of the regular glass.

I like to call my printer my Frankendoodle printer.

I'll post some photos once I've got things tweaked some more.

my aluminium bed would not be ready to print.
(print would lift right off the kapton and just not stick) until it was over 85 degrees C)
my evenly heated glass bed prints happily at around 70degrees C.

I'm guessing that the hot spot created by the resistor in the centre, (and measured slightly off centre) caused inaccurate temp readings. and wildly different temperatures over the bed, (which is why things could stick at the middle and not at the edges.

that said, I'm still not thrilled about how long my bed takes to heat up, so I may also get some more wire and re-wire the bed possibly for a 1 or 2 ohm total resistance with a relay to control the current and a separate power supply for faster bed heating.

74

Re: Glass Bed

Does anyone know if this would fit/work in a an SD2? This is from teh guy doing the VikiLCD and looks nice, and as upgrades go, isn't bad pricewise.

http://www.panucatt.com/product_p/hbp200.htm

75

Re: Glass Bed

ErroneousBosch wrote:

Does anyone know if this would fit/work in a an SD2? This is from teh guy doing the VikiLCD and looks nice, and as upgrades go, isn't bad pricewise.

http://www.panucatt.com/product_p/hbp200.htm

that'll be very tight!
it will fit, but you'll have to make the most of the space on the right hand side of the machine so that you don't foul the x-axis stepper. (will nearly touch the case, and may foud the x limit switch wires)

this will also take away any are for you to "prime" the nozzle just into the air and let it fall into the bottom of the machine.
I also think you might have an issue with the door shutting.

my glass bed is 7"x7", I would see problems in going much bigger than that. you can see in the last picture on the earlier post that I've lost my priming space and there is only about 1cm before I'd touch the x stepper.