1 (edited by scruffybob 2015-01-22 02:27:04)

Topic: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

This is my first time with a 3D printer, so I may be missing something obvious.   I'll submit to technical support, but I suspect someone might be able to help me prior to me getting a response from tech support.

I got the Press yesterday, set it up, calibrated it and hung the cable with a rubber band so it wouldn't get caught on the Y-axis.

I got my Press with a present (a broken piece of filament in the extruder assembly), but I got that out pretty easily.   I printed the first test piece (a 20cm cube) with no problems whatsoever.    Boy, was I excited when I went to bed last night.

However, this afternoon, I went back for my second print.   This time was completely different.   The extruder won't pull filament through it.   It appears to be "stalling".   It goes "thump, thump, thump" and you can see it going forward and backwards a tiny amount.    It does this even when there is no filament loaded.   I though it might just be jammed, so I removed the filament entirely and used the Soliprint "Filament Control" to manually "extrude" or "retract".   When you press "retract", the servo will reverse as expected about 1/2 the time and will go forward about 1/4 of the time and will go forward & backward about 1/4 of the time.   In other words, the servo CAN go both directions, but when I use the "Retract" slider in Soliprint, it does "random" things.

When you use the manual "Extrude" slider in Soliprint, it always goes, "thump, thump, thump" and doesn't advance at all.

I suspect there is some user setting that controls the servo, but I have no idea where to find it.

On a completely unrelated note, my "hotbed" is ALWAYS hot.    As soon as I plug in the Press, the bed heats up.   It hovers at between 100-108%C, regardless of whether it's connected to Soliprint or not.    In the Soliprint software, the power output always shows up as "0", but it never cools off, even when the extruder cools down.   I'm actually a little worried about leaving something in my house that is always above boiling point, in case something falls on it and catches fire.    So, question 2 is:  Should the hotbed always be on, or is there a problem with my machine?

M105 returns:
R: ok T:250.0 /250.0 B:103.7 /90.0 T0:250.0 /250.0 @:59 B@:0

As you can see, the temperature 103.7C is well above the target level 90C.

By the way, the one print I got out of it was nice....   Even on 0.3 resolution, the cube actually came out looking like a cube.  I attached a lousy picture, but the cube looks nice.    The pictures shows the bottom facing you and it's a little squished at the bottom, but I suspect that could be because the hotbed was too hot so it got a little melted down.

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2

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

Oh, one more thing.   I did check the screw on the extruder roller using a 1.5mm hex driver to make sure it was tight.   It was tight.   I tried loosening it up and that didn't help either.

3

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

Your bed should definitely not be on all the time!  I'd get in touch with SD support.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

4

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

I asked a friend who told me that I should check the stepper trimpots.   I found the driver board beneath two screws at the bottom of the case.     I can measure the voltage, but I have no idea what are the correct values for the Press.

The values are:
X:  .919
Y:  .929
Z:  .823
E:  .523

Is there somewhere that says what these should be?

Thanks,
Ron

5

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

If you can, get your printer running on Repetier Host. It gives much better control over the hotend and bed than SoliPrint. It will also give you much better feedback as to what is going on.

Something is definitely not right if the Bed is on 100% of the time.


Side note: that broken filament in the extruder is supposed to be there. It's from the test print they do at the factory.

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

6

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

I installed Repetier Host .85 (from Solidoodle's website).   It connected to the Press, but didn't allow manual movement of the axis.   Also, it showed the hotbed as 20C (but it's so hot I can't touch it right now), so I'm not sure this helps much.   

Is there something specifically I should be looking at from Repetier Host?

Thanks,
Ron

7

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

And what does it say your extruder temp is?  Could the two thermistors be plugged into the other?  Doesn't really explain why the bed is on all the time though.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

8 (edited by scruffybob 2015-01-22 02:22:05)

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

The extruder temperature starts at 20C as well.   That's the ambient temperature of the room.   The temperatures go up separately when I click heat the extruder and when I heat the bed, so they're tracking separately.

The bed is definitely being heated as soon as power is applied to the machine.   It doesn't even have to be turned on.   The bed gets hot as soon as you plug in the power cable to the back of the machine.   From what you've already said, I'm pretty sure that isn't the right thing.

9

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

Definitely not right that means something is shorted out on the board or the heater is connected to the wrong pins on the board.  I'd contact SD and see what they want you to do.  If it is simply plugged into the wrong spot that's an easy fix.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

10

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

Guys, I had a similar problem, but with the hot end heating up even though the printer was off, computer was off.  Quickly unplugged to prevent a fire.  Turns out the heating resistor set screw was loose, causing intermittent connections, and I guess some how shorting out the machine, or causing a stuck bit in motherboard.  Don't know, but when I tightened the screw, all those problems stopped, and machine is printing as designed now.  But to be safe, I have it plugged into a power strip I turn off while I'm not using machine.

11

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

Can you tell me where the heating resister set screw is?      By the way, the hot bed is plugged into a connector on the motherboard labeled H Bed, so I'm assuming it's plugged into the correct place.  When I unplugged it, the bed cooled.     As soon as power is applied to the board (even before the machine is turned on), it sends 23.5V down that line to the hotbed, so it's getting power from the motherboard as soon as it's plugged in.

12

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

I rarely send users to SD support.  At the very least you want to get a ticket started on this issue.
beyond the fact that it isn't working correctly I see it as a hazard that SD needs to be informed of.
The set screw although may have corrected the issue is seemingly unrelated and indicates an even larger underlying issue.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

13

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

scruffybob wrote:

I asked a friend who told me that I should check the stepper trimpots.   I found the driver board beneath two screws at the bottom of the case.     I can measure the voltage, but I have no idea what are the correct values for the Press.

The values are:
X:  .919
Y:  .929
Z:  .823
E:  .523

Is there somewhere that says what these should be?

Thanks,
Ron

I am in the process of tweaking the trimpot myself,

here's mine pre-tweak

X; 1.444
Y: 1.422
Z: 1.144
E: 1.07

tweaking the extruder voltage to anything less than 0.9v for me would result in the same extruder motor stalling even without any filaments loaded.

with the stock setting i can print no problem but i have heavy moire effect, which is why i am trying to tweak the extruder motor voltage.

14 (edited by scruffybob 2015-01-29 02:23:00)

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

I got an email from tech support indication that the trimpot values should be:

X: 1.0v
Y: 1.0v
Z: 1.0v
E: 1.5v

I can't set my extruder stepper above 1.15v, so I'm not sure where to go from here.

15 (edited by jagowilson 2015-01-29 02:36:22)

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

Don't worry about the voltage. Just lower it until the moire disappears. Going higher will make The moire worse.

16 (edited by cbud 2015-01-29 02:37:47)

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

scruffybob wrote:

(...) I removed the filament entirely and used the Soliprint "Filament Control" to manually "extrude" or "retract".   When you press "retract", the servo will reverse as expected about 1/2 the time and will go forward about 1/4 of the time and will go forward & backward about 1/4 of the time.   In other words, the servo CAN go both directions, but when I use the "Retract" slider in Soliprint, it does "random" things.

When you use the manual "Extrude" slider in Soliprint, it always goes, "thump, thump, thump" and doesn't advance at all. (...)

Scruffybob - I'm having the exact same problem. Did you make any progress with the servo movement? Did switching to the Repetier Host software help with the servo at all?

EDIT: Nevermind - just saw your response to my question in another thread. Guess I'll keep trying to fix it over here.

17

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

@jagowilson:    Moire is the least of my problems.   Right now, I've got a $500 paperweight since I can't extrude anything.

@cbud:   Repetier Host didn't help at all, but I did get it up and running.

18

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

@scruffybob - This is the exact same problem I've been having. Been watching your posts a little and tried adjusting my voltages as well to no success either. I have a support request in with Solidoodle about it (Submitted on Saturday) as well and have been updating it, but haven't gotten any response yet at all.

19

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

I had the exact same problem. After quite a few successful prints the extruder started clicking. Turns out that a couple of the wires going into the motor plug were broke off underneath the insulation, I soldered them back on and it seems to be working.

Hope this helps.

20 (edited by scruffybob 2015-02-01 05:45:07)

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

Okay, I fixed the thump, thump, thump of the stepper motor.   It WAS a broken wire on the extruder stepper motor connector.   

ISSUE:  Extruder stepper going thump, thump, thump but not turning.
CAUSE:  The wiring bundle going to the extruder get frayed and breaks,
FIX:  Resolder the connectors on the connector on the top of the extruder stepper

This is a problem that multiple users have seen and at least three of us have fixed it the same way, so it looks like a design/manufacturing defect.   The connector to the extruder stepper motor is so tight that moving back and forward strains the wires until they break.  Since the connector is held by insulation of the wire, it may not be obvious that the connection has failed.   The only way to test is to use a multimeter to make sure that the wire is unbroken from the motherboard connector to the extruder motor connector.

This was first diagnosed by Eric Albert (thank you very much):   http://renaissance-engineer.net/2015/01 … epic-fail/ but has been seen by at least four other Press owners.

I've attached a copy of Eric's picture of the extruder stepper motor connector and circled the place where the wires are likely to break.

Note that you'll have to readjust all of the trimpots after you fix the connector.   For some reason, as soon as I reconnected the broken power cable, all of the other stepper motor voltages changed dramatically, so I had to readjust the trimpots.

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21 (edited by scruffybob 2015-02-01 06:32:43)

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

Ok, NOW I'm excited.   While I'm not pleased that I haven't heard from Solidoodle tech support in over a week, I'm pleased that others in the forum have provided enough information I could get my Press working again.    Of course the first thing I tried to print after getting the extruder working again was something I thought would never work:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:53451

I printed it at 0.3mm resolution, and it printed for just over 2 hours with Soliprint v1.1.0.  I actually expected it to bind up and not turn easily like others have reported, but it came out of the printer and all the bearings turned immediately with no excessive force at all.

I've been skeptical for the past two weeks because of the number and severity of problems I've encountered with the initial version of the Press, but I want to encourage others that once you get past all the design issues and get it calibrated properly, the Press has the capability of printing some pretty nice stuff!

I still have some outstanding issues, but at least I'm now up and printing.   Thanks to everyone that assisted in getting a newbie through all the startup issues.

I threw in a picture of an octopus that I just finished, just for good measure!

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22

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

So, were not sure just how or where to measure the voltages. Are there test points on the circuitboard? Where should we put a multimeter?

23

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

80M wrote:

So, were not sure just how or where to measure the voltages. Are there test points on the circuitboard? Where should we put a multimeter?

On both sides of the motor output connectors are ground points.  You can probe the trimpot on the side that has one lead.  The bottom right lead of the trimpot is ground as well, but harder to reach I think.  The bottom left lead connects to a resistor.

24

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

80M wrote:

So, were not sure just how or where to measure the voltages. Are there test points on the circuitboard? Where should we put a multimeter?

Either side of the potentiometers.  There is a single contact on one side and two on the other... Put the multimeter on the pad on the single side and the pad closest to where the connectors are on the board on the side with two.  Make sure you adjust and then test, don't test with the screwdriver still in the pot.

25

Re: Problem with extruder stalling on new Press

Ok thanks!