1 Topic by KevlarGorilla (edited by KevlarGorilla 2015-01-03 05:49:00)

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Topic: Layer de-lamination mid print

I've been tweaking my Solidoodle 3 for some time, just put on a new set of carriages, made my own modified threadless ball screw, and I'm pretty happy with my prints. They are remarkably pristine, though there is one remaining issue that seems to repeat itself pretty consistently.

Photo is attached. Layer height here is 0.15mm, using E3D and ABS. These pieces are about 2-3 inches tall, but at the 1.75" mark or so, there is a pattern of de-lamination that's pretty ugly and tricky to fix after the fact. Actually, I ended up cutting off those sections and re-printing the top parts. You can see it affected both parts; they're actually pretty small.

What's coming to mind is the bed is wobbling around, but it's odd that it waits until this far in the print to do it. I'm going to try some other tall prints for calibration. Maybe I can use a bed stabilizer?

http://i.imgur.com/xnrheNf.jpg

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-SD3, E3Dv5, boz's E3D extruder, ABS from Sainsmart, mirror bed + dried hairspray + ABS slurry
-KevlarGorilla's 8x bearing threadless ball screw, 2n2r5's spring'd bed stabilizer
-fts_ltx's x-carriage, lawsy's v5 y-axis carriages, 2n2r5's beltless drive
-Overhead filament holder on 8mm rod, custom fillament feed, paeltz's simple enclosure, mini heater (opt)

2 Reply by wire10ga

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Re: Layer de-lamination mid print

Do you have an enclosure on your machine?  If not, try some cardboard on the sides and top and try again after you let your bed come to temp then give it an extra 10 min to warm up the enclosure.

SD2 - Glass Bed, Fans on PCB and Y motor, Custom enclosure
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3 Reply by KevlarGorilla

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Re: Layer de-lamination mid print

Yep, got an enclosure.

-SD3, E3Dv5, boz's E3D extruder, ABS from Sainsmart, mirror bed + dried hairspray + ABS slurry
-KevlarGorilla's 8x bearing threadless ball screw, 2n2r5's spring'd bed stabilizer
-fts_ltx's x-carriage, lawsy's v5 y-axis carriages, 2n2r5's beltless drive
-Overhead filament holder on 8mm rod, custom fillament feed, paeltz's simple enclosure, mini heater (opt)

4 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Layer de-lamination mid print

looks to me like under extrusion or clogging.  Are you sure your filament spool is free to move and that the filament isn't tangled on the spool?
I would also be interested to see the temp chart for those prints.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

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5 Reply by AZERATE

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Re: Layer de-lamination mid print

I can't be certain by the pics, but it looks like what I recently experienced with a large print.
If it is the same effect, I believe it is due to the Size of the print in contrast of the flow of heat in the chamber (taller layers cooling too fast).

In testing, I found lowering the infill and sealing all voids in the enclosure with tape helped a bunch.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
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6 Reply by jagowilson

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Re: Layer de-lamination mid print

What is your bed temperature? Although it doesn't look like melting, heat rising through a part can cause this. Perhaps try lowering the bed temperature to 90C after the first layer (manually, or in slic3r settings).

This is just a guess. It's more likely your filament spool is getting tangled up, your settings are not quite right, or your e3d is partially clogged. That's the order id check things out in.

7 Reply by knowack

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Re: Layer de-lamination mid print

There could be something dragging on the filament or extruder assembly at that height.  Consider 'manually' moving the bed to the height where you encounter the problem, and ensure that nothing is snagging a wiring harness or other component.

It seems to me that a thermal problem would manifest itself more gradually; it may be a physical problem.

8 Reply by shields1.as

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Re: Layer de-lamination mid print

I was encountering similar problems. This morning I bought an electric heater and put it on the chamber. Completly solved my issues. I think the print gets too cold the taller it gets.

9 Reply by grob

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Re: Layer de-lamination mid print

I had similar looking thing with the extruder stepper driver turned up too high - when the driver resets due to overheating, the effect appears just like an intermittently clogged nozzle. If all else fails, check how hot your extruder stepper is getting and consider cooling...

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
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10 Reply by KevlarGorilla

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Re: Layer de-lamination mid print

shields1.as wrote:

I was encountering similar problems. This morning I bought an electric heater and put it on the chamber. Completely solved my issues. I think the print gets too cold the taller it gets.

What kind/size of heater? I'm hoping to fit it inside the enclosure without affecting my build height too much.

wardjr wrote:

looks to me like under extrusion or clogging.  Are you sure your filament spool is free to move and that the filament isn't tangled on the spool?
I would also be interested to see the temp chart for those prints.

I added a filament holder that resolved some mild shifting and delamination issues. Picture is below. I think sealing up some of those gaps may go a long way.

http://i.imgur.com/yiueogm.jpg

-SD3, E3Dv5, boz's E3D extruder, ABS from Sainsmart, mirror bed + dried hairspray + ABS slurry
-KevlarGorilla's 8x bearing threadless ball screw, 2n2r5's spring'd bed stabilizer
-fts_ltx's x-carriage, lawsy's v5 y-axis carriages, 2n2r5's beltless drive
-Overhead filament holder on 8mm rod, custom fillament feed, paeltz's simple enclosure, mini heater (opt)

11 Reply by KevlarGorilla (edited by KevlarGorilla 2015-04-01 16:12:55)

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Re: Layer de-lamination mid print

I solved this issue!

To rule out enclosure and heated space, I ran without the bed on at all, and got the same results at the same height in the print and observed what was happening. I also changed the spool to be completely effortless to feed out to prevent any strain on the extruder, and removed the top of the enclosure too.

I have a threadless ball screw design, and the coupler was acting like a spring, stretching out and snapping down every other layer. I guess my guide rods are not parallel, or could be better greased. I could solve this by making the coupler solid by shimming it with wire, or tightening the ball screw assembly. To prevent taking it apart I just added some weight to the build platforms. I cut out a dozen pieces of 3/16" steel, 2.50" x 2.50" and placed a few of them under the platform and near the rod. Pictures to follow.

-SD3, E3Dv5, boz's E3D extruder, ABS from Sainsmart, mirror bed + dried hairspray + ABS slurry
-KevlarGorilla's 8x bearing threadless ball screw, 2n2r5's spring'd bed stabilizer
-fts_ltx's x-carriage, lawsy's v5 y-axis carriages, 2n2r5's beltless drive
-Overhead filament holder on 8mm rod, custom fillament feed, paeltz's simple enclosure, mini heater (opt)