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Topic: Filament not sticking

Getting closer to my first print! My issue right now is the extruder.  I started out with black set at 195 degrees C.  The plastic came out of the nozzle and curled up around the tip.  I read there was some problems with the black in the early days (and I do have early black) and that you should try a temp around 205.  Didn't help.

I switched to white, reset to 200 degrees and had the same problem.

In both cases I thought it might have been that the plastic needed to be laid down, that it was normal to come out of the nozzle and curl.  However the plastic didn't stick to the bed, all it did was  curl up around the tip, so I shut it down before it built up too much.

I didn't see anything on this site about this problem but it did seem like part of the problem may be a partially clogged nozzle.  Will get something to clean it out next time I go out.  Does however seem to me that the plastic should have stuck to the bed so there might be another problem.

Any thoughts appreciated

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Re: Filament not sticking

Sound like your print head is not close enough to the bed. What temp is the bed running at? Have you leveled your bed as well?

SD2 - Glass Bed, Fans on PCB and Y motor, Custom enclosure
Slicer - Simplify3D

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Re: Filament not sticking

I have it turned off right now but I think the bed temp was 55.  Will double check the bed to make sure it is level.

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Re: Filament not sticking

What filament are you printing with? ABS or PLA?

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Re: Filament not sticking

If your printing with ABS, I run my bed at 85-88 and it sticks well enough. My 1st print I tried at 65 (couldn't wait) and it did not stick.

SD2 - Glass Bed, Fans on PCB and Y motor, Custom enclosure
Slicer - Simplify3D

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Re: Filament not sticking

Your issue is your z height is not set correctly.  Search for z height adjustment and you will get it straightened out.

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Re: Filament not sticking

http://wiki.solidoodle.com/leveling-the-print-bed

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Re: Filament not sticking

Is this what's happening? youtu.be/2nQfsk7yOYg
I just made a thread asking a similar question (I'm sure I'll get some deserved flack for not searching).

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Re: Filament not sticking

I had that happen on my first few prints,  after I switched to glass with some hair spray it's never happened again.

Although I have my slic3r profile set down an anchor point near the XY home.

But definitely try the glass bed, I highly recommend it

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Re: Filament not sticking

I've read a little about people switching to glass but haven't seen anything on the particulars.  Can someone point me to some information about using a glass bed?  Thanks in advance

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Re: Filament not sticking

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/160/glass-bed/

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Re: Filament not sticking

I'm using a glass bed with hair spray.  The first picture shows a 12 hour print that separated from the bed about 30 minutes before the end of the print.  The second picture shows a filament extruder hopper, where the bottom is deformed; I do not know whether it will make it to the end of the print or not.  Probably my fifth try.  I'm printing with the bed at 100, an enclosure, and a 2 mm brim.  Any thoughts about how to improve things? It's interesting that while the walls are not entirely uniform, I do not see any of the Z axis regular variation that others are seeing.

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Re: Filament not sticking

Jon,  On the first image with the tapered plus sign.  I would model in a solid brim as a full square and let it stick that way.  Same as trimming off the brim you have but you get all that extra contact for sticking.  On your second print it doesn't appear that your first layer is getting pressed into the bed, rather it's laying on the bed.  I would back off the z screw a 1/4 turn to see if you can get the first layer a little smooshed to help with adhesion.  That may solve a lot of your issues. 

That's probably one of the worst examples of cooling I've seen so far.  Probably due to the structure of the part and the  amount of perimeters you have turned on as well.

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Re: Filament not sticking

The first print has the challenge of a small footprint.  It might be worth doing a raft for that one.  In the 2nd, the glass looks too shiny, there might not be enough hairspray.  Don't be afraid to hose it down (outside the printer of course).  The glass should feel rough when it's dry and look a bit hazy.

What you are seeing at the ends of the walls is overshoot.  I keep my outer perimeters down to 25 now, and run faster on the inside.  If I don't care so much about appearance I'll run the outers at 50.

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Re: Filament not sticking

cmetzel wrote:

On your second print it doesn't appear that your first layer is getting pressed into the bed, rather it's laying on the bed.  I would back off the z screw a 1/4 turn to see if you can get the first layer a little smooshed to help with adhesion.

I always get the bed so that I can just barely push a regular piece of printer paper under the extruder: this is insufficient?

cmetzel wrote:

That's probably one of the worst examples of cooling I've seen so far.  Probably due to the structure of the part and the  amount of perimeters you have turned on as well.

Which part are you speaking about?  The second one? That's Tim's Filextruder hopper.  I have 3 perimeters vertically, and 3 layers at top and bottom: you would recommend something different?

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Re: Filament not sticking

IanJohnson wrote:

What you are seeing at the ends of the walls is overshoot.  I keep my outer perimeters down to 25 now, and run faster on the inside.  If I don't care so much about appearance I'll run the outers at 50.

I have:

Perimeters: 50 mm/s
Small Perimeters: 50 m/sec
External Perimeters: 100% (is this where you are recommending 25%?)
Infill: 50 mm/s
Solid infill: 50 mm/s
Top solid infill: 50 mm/s
Bridges: 70 mm/s
Travel: 50 mm/s
First layer speed: 25%

Any recommendations?

BTW, the hopper broke off at about 80 percent complete.

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Re: Filament not sticking

jon_bondy wrote:

I always get the bed so that I can just barely push a regular piece of printer paper under the extruder: this is insufficient?

That's good for leveling, but then you want to set the z height to make sure you get good adhesion on your first layer.  Check out Ian's blog post on this shows pictures and how touchy the adjustment is. 

http://solidoodletips.wordpress.com/201 … st-layers/

Yes I was talking about the hopper print, looking specifically at the bottom layer, unless that's just showing curl after lifting, but it looks to me like your first layer is not deformed, or perfectly round.  If you think of the filament laying on the bed.  If there is no press it's just going to lay on the bed and there's not going to be any adhesion to the bed because there's a single point of contact on a round part on a flat surface.  But if you adjust it just a little bit, you press the first layer flat and get a nice firm flat to flat bond with the bed.

http://s1.postimage.org/e0t3w5e67/z_height_reason.jpg

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Re: Filament not sticking

jon_bondy wrote:

External Perimeters: 100% (is this where you are recommending 25%?)

I would say 50% since your speed is 50mm/s and you want to slow it to 25mm/s

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Re: Filament not sticking

jon_bondy wrote:

Which part are you speaking about?  The second one? That's Tim's Filextruder hopper.  I have 3 perimeters vertically, and 3 layers at top and bottom: you would recommend something different?

I print that part at these settings:

Layer Height: 0.3mm
Vertical perimeters (minimum): 3
Generate extra perimeters when needed: Yes
Horizontal layers: 4 (top) 4 (bottom)

Infill:
0.8
honeycomb
rectilinear
infill every 1 layer
solid infil every 0 layers

Speed:
Perimeters: 60 mm/s
Small Perimeters: 30 m/sec
External Perimeters: 30
Infill: 75 mm/s
Solid infill: 60 mm/s
Top solid infill: 50 mm/s
Bridges: 75 mm/s
Travel: 75 mm/s
First layer speed: 30

Skirt: 1 loop, 1 layer
Support: off
1.79mm filament, 0.85 multiplier
220degC (I'm using a QU-BD hot end)

No cooling.
Bed set at 80C
Garnier Fructis Hairspray, Strong, about 3 seconds of spray applied to a piece of glass I got from Lowes

That's really all I know to list...

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Re: Filament not sticking

The first pick looks like you had a decent print until you got near the top.

The 2nd clearly is off.....a draft or not enough heat to keep the hold.  Kick the heat bed up a to 102 and keep the enclosure doors closed.  See if that helps.

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Re: Filament not sticking

First I'm told a bed temp of 80; then I'm told 100.  Yikes!  How does anyone figure this all out?  What are the criteria that you all are using that pushes you towards or away from hotter or colder bed temperatures?

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Re: Filament not sticking

jon_bondy wrote:

First I'm told a bed temp of 80; then I'm told 100.  Yikes!  How does anyone figure this all out?  What are the criteria that you all are using that pushes you towards or away from hotter or colder bed temperatures?

Hotter means stickier. I don't need 100 to make that small of a part stick, but you might. The downside to that is waiting longer for the bed to heat up. Generally I use 80C on average, and 100C when I'm experiencing curling or coming unstuck.

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Re: Filament not sticking

I mostly use 95 for the bed, with hairspray I can usually start printing at 65 or so and still be good.  Since I model most of my own stuff, if I know it's going to be a tricky part I put a custom brim or add some geometry that can be trimmed to help me stick.

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Re: Filament not sticking

I consider 80 a minimum for the bed, and usually push it to 100 with the help of a towel sitting on top of it as it heats.

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Re: Filament not sticking

So the only down-side to 100 is the delay in heating up?  I should probably use 100 all of the time, then!