26

Re: Retroplayer's SD4 Major Upgrade/Rebuild - heated enclosure

n2ri wrote:

like I posted earlier the only component that has to be cooled due to not being able to remove it from the inclosure is theX axis stepper motor and the small bithermal wafer can be pasted and straped to its side and controled with the heat controler to keep it comffy

?? I am not trying to cool any steppers, liquid or otherwise. You have me really confused. lol

27

Re: Retroplayer's SD4 Major Upgrade/Rebuild - heated enclosure

Retroplayer wrote:
n2ri wrote:

like I posted earlier the only component that has to be cooled due to not being able to remove it from the inclosure is theX axis stepper motor and the small bithermal wafer can be pasted and straped to its side and controled with the heat controler to keep it comffy

?? I am not trying to cool any steppers, liquid or otherwise. You have me really confused. lol


well the one on right side of printer has had overheat issues in the past in just inclosed cases without added heat some even cooked the old boards pots

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

28

Re: Retroplayer's SD4 Major Upgrade/Rebuild - heated enclosure

N2ri mentioned way above that an easy-bake oven reaches hundreds of degrees with just a lamp. That got me thinking. What would a 60W spotlight do to help heat the inside of the printer.

So I figured, let's find out!

http://i.imgur.com/dcLLvPk.jpg

First, a little bit of background. I have installed insulating side panels on both left and right side and found a sterilite tub that fit perfectly over the top of the printer (just cut out where the filament goes in) and applied weatherstripping along the bottom of it to form a gasket. It's just lying on top, not fixed down yet.

I use a kitchen temperature probe to attempt to monintor the temp inside the chamber. Since I am mainly interested in the temperature around the build platform, I taped the probe to the back wall of the Z axis. Now, the probe will follow the build platform.

http://i.imgur.com/nKVPpLv.jpg

Finally, I took a 60W work lamp and have it sitting pretty much right inside the printer to preheat it.

It did manage to raise the temperature around 13 degrees C after nearly a half hour. Not nearly as effective as I had hoped.

http://i.imgur.com/R4MaPE7.jpg

However, I did learn a few things. One, it makes sense to mount my probe to the Z-Axis since that is where things are the most important. Second, an incandescent lamp does not heat the air as much as one would think. They make special heat lamps for that (like the easy bake oven uses.) And third, my chamber heater might benefit from mounting on the Z-Axis as well.

So, here some ideas... (this is a 24V system)

Two 2.4 ohm power resistors mounted in series as a heater. Tap off the center to run the 12V blower fan.
Use a heater cartridge like used on extruders and assemble some custom radiator
Tiny halogen lamp as the heat source with radiator and blower. Second advantage is a lighted build area.


When I was experimenting with different ideas, I found some nice little 40mm blowers that are very light and quiet. If I can make this heater compact enough to mount on the Z-axis and blow the hot air onto the build area, that may perhaps be ideal. I think I could fit the entire affair inside of an altoids tin.

Thoughts? Power resistors, heater cartridge, or halogen lamp?

29 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-11-09 11:19:01)

Re: Retroplayer's SD4 Major Upgrade/Rebuild - heated enclosure

BTW, it actually made it up to 52 degrees C while I was typing this with the extruder and hot bed on. Now to test how quickly I lose heat when I remove the lamp.

Update: Dropped from 52 to 37 in a about 5 minutes. Lamp method sucks and I need to seal the entire printer apparently. Amazing how quickly it is losing heat.

30 (edited by n2ri 2014-11-09 15:23:19)

Re: Retroplayer's SD4 Major Upgrade/Rebuild - heated enclosure

I own several similar toys like the easy bake oven (Thingmaker, Vacuformer, injector molder etc. all such heating toys use a standard 60 watt incandescent bulb some are the candle obra shape for thinner profile. they just have an inclosure with shiny metal reflectors focused towards compartment needing heated. they are designed to reach and maintain about 350f in about 15 mins. I also own some older thingmaker hot plates that operate at same temps and max out at about 400f in 30mins using a 20 watt wire heater like crock pots use to warm foods these toys have no temp control some dont even have thermal fuses to limit them. then I have several Metal Molder toys that use a tiny 2watt heater to reach 174f in 10 mins to melt low temp metal alloys and poor into silicone molds. (these 'toys' are part of my 'factory' to make items mostly scale details or figures/vehicles to sell hobbiests like my SD2 is for). this and my career in HVAC/Refrigeration I have done both most my 50+ year life. is why I know this info. I prefer using F to C as its more accurate/defined range and I worked with it my whole career. I only use the C due to SD using it, otherwise only electric furnaces use that to list temps of fusible links on heating elements.

my SD2 has the inclosure as I ordered it that way but I leave it upside-down on top mostly now so I can access printer faster plus the bed and extruder and fans kept it like 100f+ inside always when printing and caused motors to overheat on long/detailed prints. and I have the Holmes air purifier on one side drawing the ABS fumes through charcoal filter so home stays odor free

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

31

Re: Retroplayer's SD4 Major Upgrade/Rebuild - heated enclosure

n2ri wrote:

my SD2 has the inclosure as I ordered it that way but I leave it upside-down on top mostly now so I can access printer faster plus the bed and extruder and fans kept it like 100f+ inside always when printing and caused motors to overheat on long/detailed prints. and I have the Holmes air purifier on one side drawing the ABS fumes through charcoal filter so home stays odor free

100F is only 37 degrees C. Not nearly enough to prevent warping. I have thought maybe the heated bed actually creates some of the problem because it causes too much temperature differential between the bottom of the part and the middle layers.

The very top layers will be 200 degrees, the bottom layers will be 110 degrees. But the middle will have cooled to near ambient temperature of 32-37 degrees.

So two solutions I can think of. Either only use the heated bed for the first layer and shut it off or increase the temp of the chamber to near the heated bed to try to keep the entire part the same temperature.

32 (edited by n2ri 2014-11-09 16:34:41)

Re: Retroplayer's SD4 Major Upgrade/Rebuild - heated enclosure

the bed temp has to stay above 70c to keep part from popping loose from bed but Slicer allows this setting also. I run mine at 80c for ABS always (never checked actual temp if RH is off some) and use glue stick on kaptan tape (soon glass plate) and never have warping. does fine for even 8hr prints since I started doing this. before at 90c-110c no matter what size, shape or time of print job it always warped loose and distorted beyond use.

now if I get cool air draft over bed and no glue stick in a spot it wont stick to bed or may come loose if 1st layer didnt stick good. but I just restart print after correcting the glue and draft issue. once 1st layer is all stuck good and cool drafts stopped its good to go till finished.

PLA needs about 70c for 1st layer to stick then can turn heat off after plus extrudes lower temp than ABS I set extruder at 195c ABS and 180c PLA but not using PLA now till new hotend with .4mm nozzle also going to keep a .35mm and .25mm nozzles for ABS and may need larger for an exotic filament some day possibly

warping rarely happens on layers above 1st layer unless very cool ambient temps. and all you need for adheasion of 1st layer is lowest temp above 70c that keeps it stuck when using some type of sticky coating like some use hairspray, glue stick, slurry mixes, tapes...

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

33 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-11-09 17:42:01)

Re: Retroplayer's SD4 Major Upgrade/Rebuild - heated enclosure

n2ri wrote:

the bed temp has to stay above 70c to keep part from popping loose from bed but Slicer allows this setting also. I run mine at 80c for ABS always (never checked actual temp if RH is off some) and use glue stick on kaptan tape (soon glass plate) and never have warping. does fine for even 8hr prints since I started doing this. before at 90c-110c no matter what size, shape or time of print job it always warped loose and distorted beyond use.

now if I get cool air draft over bed and no glue stick in a spot it wont stick to bed or may come loose if 1st layer didnt stick good. but I just restart print after correcting the glue and draft issue. once 1st layer is all stuck good and cool drafts stopped its good to go till finished.

PLA needs about 70c for 1st layer to stick then can turn heat off after plus extrudes lower temp than ABS I set extruder at 195c ABS and 180c PLA but not using PLA now till new hotend with .4mm nozzle also going to keep a .35mm and .25mm nozzles for ABS and may need larger for an exotic filament some day possibly

warping rarely happens on layers above 1st layer unless very cool ambient temps. and all you need for adheasion of 1st layer is lowest temp above 70c that keeps it stuck when using some type of sticky coating like some use hairspray, glue stick, slurry mixes, tapes...

Glass (correction... 3mm borosilicate composite) with thermal conductive pad between glass and HB here. I also use hairspray. I'll give your suggestions a try and see if I fair better.

I just found on my CTC printer that the reported HB temp is WAY off. With it set at 110C, it was actually measuring just 62C with my kitchen thermometer.

I double checked the kitchen thermometer. 0C when touching ice and the measured temp matches reported extruder temp when placed on the heater block. So something is definitely off for the HB. Either a broken thermistor or a badly mounted thermistor on the HB.

On the extruders, the thermistors are installed in an eyelet crimp connector and screwed on. I had issues with the right one and found it wasn't screwed in tightly and the eyelet had heavy oxidation. After sanding it, applying thermal paste and screwing it in tightly, my measurements are very accurate now. Maybe the HB is having the same issue. I'm thinking some of the parts they used were not stored properly. The one on the left was nice and clean.