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Topic: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

Need your opinions, weather or not you guys would think this is something that would be commercially viable.  I figure a 16 inch i.d. glass container and 18 inches deep.  This way it could handle every print except ones from the $6500 Makerbot.  All metal carriage on the inside with movable hooks to hang prints from, and a heat bed that goes to 80 degrees.  I figure since 3d printing is getting cheaper by the year this would be a good thing for the community to have, and to save us time instead of trying to jerry-rig ones together, priced under $100.   Good idea or too soon?

Overkill is underrated!!!

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

Problem with commercial viability =

(1) Do you really think you could make a decent product and sell it for under $100? I'd buy it pretty quickly, if so. But i suspect it would run more like $200

(2) Acetone and explosion/fire liability, have to figure out how to sell products as kits and externalize most of the risk.

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

Both gasoline and acetone fall into the class 1b ( Class IB flammable liquids have a flash point below 73 °F and a boiling point greater than or equal to 100 °F), so as long as proper warnings are on it, I don't think it would be that much of an issue.  It's not like this is intended for amatures.   Price wise ....... no idea, that would be the goal but I haven't gotten out of the idea phase yet.

Overkill is underrated!!!

4 (edited by n2ri 2014-10-10 15:30:15)

Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

dont kid yourself. lawyers find lots of ways to point blame on manufacturer. look at all the recalls daily. plus fumes are too toxic/volital for in home use

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

5 (edited by wire10ga 2014-10-10 17:36:35)

Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

If you do move forward, I would create an LLC company just for that product. So if you do get sued, they can only take what that LLC company owns and not your money or house.

SD2 - Glass Bed, Fans on PCB and Y motor, Custom enclosure
Slicer - Simplify3D

6 (edited by n2ri 2014-10-10 21:04:21)

Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

wire10ga wrote:

If you do move forward, I would create an LLC company just for that product. So if you do get sued, they can only take what that LLC company owns and not your money or house.

+1 at least most of the US

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

7 (edited by jagowilson 2014-10-11 00:27:31)

Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

I would buy it, but only if you hire consultants or experts who design these vapor chambers commercially as validation for the safety of the product. As far as I understand it acetone vapor smoothing is done on commercial plastic products regularly, and I'm sure they've learned a lot through failure, explosions and death. Additionally, you'll want a consultant on OSHA compliance to find out what manufacturers are doing to ensure worker safety with such practices. I doubt you could make this safe enough that I'd want to run it in my garage. It's no offense to you, but I won't handle acetone without gloves, and I sure as hell won't be heating it anywhere that doesn't have an inspected, approved fume hood. It's simply too dangerous.

I've seen people on YouTube heating acetone in those electronic bunsen burners that allow magnetic stirring... in their kitchens. Are they INSANE? Yes.

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

liticaphobia and adminsratium powerful forces that stifle innovation and small business start ups.

seriously though no matter how hard one tries to make a safe product someone will figure out how to use it unsafely and go running for the nearest lawyer.
Tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

Tin Falcon wrote:

liticaphobia and adminsratium powerful forces that stifle innovation and small business start ups.

seriously though no matter how hard one tries to make a safe product someone will figure out how to use it unsafely and go running for the nearest lawyer.
Tin

I'm all about bashing the proliferation of administration, but a lot of the administrative forces at work that would need to be involved with this are concerned with safety, not stifling innovation.

10 (edited by n2ri 2014-10-11 06:08:47)

Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

true. I still remember when people used Turpentine when painting. I know one such lady that did in her Kitchen when she was 20 years old and the pilot on stove caused a flash explosion of the fumes which in turn threw the cup of burning Turpentine on her nearly burning her to death and burned her throat/lungs as she gasped also. she lived her entire life into her 80s with bad burn scares over most of her upper body, head and face plus eye and breathing troubles. oh and half an ear melted off. and Acetone is just as dangerous. she considered her self lucky to survive at all over a simple neglect and lack of safety or knowledge of the hazards. I know she is only less than 0.001% of such incidents even after years of safety regulations to prevent such tragedy's.

and I hope this does scare you enough to think safety 1st if only to prevent 1 more victim.

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

Look up vapor degreasers to see how it is done as an actual product.   A key feature is refrigerated coils at the top of the chamber which causes the fumes to condense before they can escape.   I did this with some copper tube and ice water, and it was very effective.

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

how does it effect the copper if at all? aluminum will dissolve in strong vapors just like with oven cleaner and furniture stripper solvents

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

Aluminum is being dissolved in those cases by the Sodium Hydroxide that is in oven cleaner type products. It won't touch steel or most plastics but like most things it has stuff it can eat (your skin being one of them) and Aluminum is on that list as is grease.

When people talk about Lye or Caustic Soda liquid, that is what that stuff is. It's also why Lye was used to make soap in earlier times, its very good at cutting through grease.

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

GOD DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    nevermind

http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/10/1 … shing-box/

Overkill is underrated!!!

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

Simmer down, buddy wink
This may bring some comfort....
I copied this OSHA accident list from the comment line in the link you gave. Reasons like this are primarily why I avoid the acetone chambers and just use a paint bucket in a hot sink.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

SnakeEyes wrote:

GOD DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    nevermind

http://3dprintingindustry.com/2014/10/1 … shing-box/

You just need to get one and fix its flaws, making a competing product. That's how it works.

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

AZERATE wrote:

Simmer down, buddy wink
This may bring some comfort....
I copied this OSHA accident list from the comment line in the link you gave. Reasons like this are primarily why I avoid the acetone chambers and just use a paint bucket in a hot sink.

a link on that site talks about using a rock/brass tumbler for finishing plastic LOL not mine

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

ok heres my solution.   $34 and some change for nut and bolt legs.

http://www.amazon.com/Presto-Options-El … 5G50AMA8PQ

using it now outside, problem solved.  smile

Overkill is underrated!!!

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

mmmmmm Prime smile

When you get it in, let me know the max size you can put in there please.

SD2 - Glass Bed, Fans on PCB and Y motor, Custom enclosure
Slicer - Simplify3D

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

a guy on youtube used this model last year. I ... My wife owns one its got room for anything off an SD2 plus. cant use my wifes as she may cook with it lol

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

Lol i actually just found that video. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBgVFn7DZCs

So I didnt want to wait for shipping, I went a bought it at the worst store on the planet .... walmart ....lol

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/Masurrao/3d%20Printing/IMG_20141025_103158.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/Masurrao/3d%20Printing/IMG_20141025_103212.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/Masurrao/3d%20Printing/IMG_20141025_103241.jpg

so 158 mm with no feet on the basket.

Overkill is underrated!!!

22 (edited by SnakeEyes 2014-10-25 21:09:56)

Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

Anyone got any pointers on how to do this?   I think I got carried away ... lol  like time frames and stuff like that?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/Masurrao/3d%20Printing/IMG_20141025_161956.jpg

Overkill is underrated!!!

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

I usually pull it as soon as I see the vapor condense on the lid, or earlier.  If you watch the sides of the basket closely, you can see the level of the vapor as it rises.   The smoothing effect will continue for a little while after you pull the print out, so don't try to judge the time by how it looks in the pot.   Its better to do a few exposures at 30 seconds or so with maybe 15 min between them to avoid runaway smoothing. 

Depending on the piece, I might hit it with some 80 or 100 grit sandpaper first to knock down the lines.  Using acetone vapor isn't necessarily a replacement for sanding, but it spares you from sanding again and again with increasingly finer grades of paper after the initial aggressive removal of material.  Sanding also fills the valleys with plastic dust which helps the lines blend in when melted.

24 (edited by n2ri 2014-10-25 22:20:25)

Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

kinda shrunken head lol cool how it glazes though. saw posts elswhere about it some times short as 15-20 secs one guy over shot like an hr and had a gooey mess

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

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Re: Thinking about making a vapor bath chamber for stores

n2ri wrote:

kinda shrunken head lol cool how it glazes though. saw posts elswhere about it some times short as 15-20 secs one guy over shot like an hr and had a gooey mess

I don't know if you play any video games but its the sentinel from Lego marvel superheroes

this was in and out all day for 30 minute clips.  now when you set the heat, do you want it to boil to evaporate quicker or am i setting the heat just below boiling to do it slower.  the problem im having is the pot is outside and it cools way to quick so the acetone doesn't do anything.  i had it in for an hour at first and no smoothing at all.

Overkill is underrated!!!