26

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

n2ri wrote:

the only shelf life on plastics I have seen unless exposed to the elements (sun/light, moisture, temp extremes etc) has been China made White turns canary Yellow after 2 years regardless of storage conditions

I have a partial spool of SainSmart PLA I used for about 5 small prints. I put them in a bag without a dessicate, forgot about it for close to a month, and the filament actually severed into several strands instead of one continuous.

Still have it, pretty much only good for experimentation rather than printing. smile

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27

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

yep so that falls into my "unless exposed to" as PLA and some others are very moisture vulnerable. so if we keep them cool (under 100F) dry and out of UV lite till printing with them (also in cool dry no UV area). they should be good for long time. I dont think the public knows how easy PLA can decompose even after printed. all those widgets made with it are gonna be trash within months after buying them likely. thats why I prefer ABS mostly

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

28

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

I have some clear blue PLA that has been in my filament tub with a dehumidifier rod for at least a year and a half.  I haven't used it because it tangled badly when I tried to move it from loose coil to a spool.   I should pull out a useable length and see how it prints.

29

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

IanJohnson wrote:

I have some clear blue PLA that has been in my filament tub with a dehumidifier rod for at least a year and a half.  I haven't used it because it tangled badly when I tried to move it from loose coil to a spool.   I should pull out a useable length and see how it prints.


yes that would be interesting to see results. looks like PLA may need sold in half spools as easy as it degrades.

I have looked at a broken part I made in PLA with a 60X currency microscope at the honeycomb infill. its full of splinters, microscopic hairs, spurs, bulges, glass glazed, bubbles etc. like peanut brittle. not impressed to say the least. I think I would only use PLA for indoor game pieces, model details and colored lenses for miniature vehicles and vases etc. not lamp shades even as CF bulbs have UV also. I want to be able to print in a rubber type material in maybe 4 dif colors Clear, Black, Neutral etc. the Apprentice with the new all metal hothead and filament guide tube would do near 100% of my prints with water desolvable support material. unless needing finer ultra detail prints.

I looked at the site selling the new hotheads and the one we need has shrunk to less than half size now. hope thats what the SD duel extruders use

Mitch G

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

30 (edited by adrian 2014-08-10 23:46:42)

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

Have a reread of my post and you'll see that I specifically stated its more an issue with exotic filaments rather than vanilla ABS... Its applicable to all stuff ultimately but have a read again of what I posted n2ri before you start worrying about arguing about vanilla PLA and ABS wink

And given we seem to be venturing down a bit of pro-patriotic ideals given some comments ; remember GM is an American brand too wink Made in USA doesn't mean diddly in the scheme of things in reference to quality tongue The country of manufacture has nothing much to do with it at all ; its entirely about the quality of the polymers; and the additives ; in the first instance.

Anyway...

31 (edited by n2ri 2014-08-11 09:26:05)

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

adrian wrote:

Have a reread of my post and you'll see that I specifically stated its more an issue with exotic filaments rather than vanilla ABS... Its applicable to all stuff ultimately but have a read again of what I posted n2ri before you start worrying about arguing about vanilla PLA and ABS wink

And given we seem to be venturing down a bit of pro-patriotic ideals given some comments ; remember GM is an American brand too wink Made in USA doesn't mean diddly in the scheme of things in reference to quality tongue The country of manufacture has nothing much to do with it at all ; its entirely about the quality of the polymers; and the additives ; in the first instance.

Anyway...


yes the country of manufacture has a great deal to do with quality especially when they dont use/have access to good quality materials or workmanship to manufacture with like China and other old tech countries India and a couple others have out dated tool and die used to make metal items sold in cheap stores like harbor freight as more of a display novelty item like old style transits, compasses, sextants, Knives... in the name of recycling/going green" and many of the once famous brand name manufacturers have out sourced manufacturing, assembly and components to China, Mexico and elsewhere for cheap labor etc trying to boost profits at the cost of quality many have even closed or moved/sold out of the USA and get tax breaks for doing so plus other countries get big discounts on  importing to the USA yet place embargoes and heavy fees on the USA importing to them (kinda reverse of former Presidents like Reagan's "free trade agreement"). so I wouldnt call it just a patriotic statement/ideal as I know our own companies are part at fault. but we are tired of being sold out and becoming one of the poorest economy's instead of one of the wealthiest. there are more immigrants (legal and illegal) being employed than American born lately and thats getting worse. are there other countries that have this same problem? I worry how my children will make it at the rate things are going. there are thousands of industrys and businesses (Jobs/Careers) vanishing every month never to return being torn down even. but thats enough about that.

all Im saying from first hand experience is quality suffers greatly on several countries products compared to the quality I saw the first 30+ years of my 56 years here. and I can list dozens of examples where that has cost many times more than the few bucks saved going that route. its not the fault of those other countries but our own for allowing it happen to us.

Mitch

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

32 (edited by n2ri 2014-08-11 09:43:46)

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

adrian wrote:

Just as a note; most of the speciality filaments will have a 'shelf life'... there is a strong temptation to stock up and have stuff 'on hand' but keep in mind that its print quality will degrade over time regardless... stuff like laywoo; laybrick; nylons; etc. You need to use it within 12-18months from production (not sale)... 

Its maybe a 'nice' problem to have to have to chew through a couple of rolls of t-glasse for example before they 'expire'; but its also probably not a cost-effective approach.  The same applies for ABS and PLA.. but the more vanilla a filament is, the more life it will have. The more exotic; the less inert the filament will be regardless of how its stored.

So unless you are turning over that much filament; mass storage is probably not a good approach to engineer around. Instead look to have a solid supply relationship so you can rapidly acquire 'fresh stock' as needed.


this is the part I was referring to "The same applies for ABS and PLA.. but the more vanilla a filament is, the more life it will have. The more exotic; the less inert the filament will be regardless of how its stored. "

that robot made in China using White ABS (as vanilla as can be) turned yellow as a Canary in just over a year siting in my air-conditioned closet and everybody I know that bought one did the same thing. yet I have a plastic model of a truck I built in 1970 that was molded in white ABS by a company here in the USA never painted nor stored in harsh or smoking environment and its still bright white.

Mitch

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

33

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

Clearly us Antipodeans and Europeans have no idea. I stand wholly corrected and educated.

USA... USA... USA... that's how it goes right?

34

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

lol

SD2 - Glass Bed, Fans on PCB and Y motor, Custom enclosure
Slicer - Simplify3D

35

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

adrian wrote:

Clearly us Antipodeans and Europeans have no idea. I stand wholly corrected and educated.

USA... USA... USA... that's how it goes right?

yeah right, totally missed the point

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

36

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

The Antipodeans were a group of Australian modern artists who asserted the importance of figurative art, and protested against abstract expressionism.

so whats that got to do with China quality?? or my posts?

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

37 (edited by adrian 2014-08-12 00:48:02)

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

You need a better dictionary:

Antipodean
ˌantɪpəˈdiːən/
adjective
1.
relating to Australia or New Zealand (used by inhabitants of the northern hemisphere).
"Antipodean wines"
noun
1.
a person from Australia or New Zealand (used by inhabitants of the northern hemisphere).
"a brisk Antipodean, she moved with speed and efficiency"

And I dont think I missed your point .. I just sort of got side tracked as I personally see no valid arguments over country of origin == quality debates. I've used crap US product; crap European product and yes; crap Australian product.  Like any supply arrangement its up to you to choose to partner with people that provide the quality you seek. That quality can be delivered from multiple countries with little correlation between the two. There's yes crap Chinese product; but there is also quality product. There is just 10,000 more of them than there is in the US or Europe combined - so obviously following that statistically there will be more low quality product by volume, but not by ratio to the entire market place.  To walk into a situation with preconceived notions that Country of Origin will directly equate to the output quality is just short sighted and wholly non-reflective of reality.

By all means get worked up over flag waving and the demise of your industrial sector... but don't try and run the argument that Made in the USA means superior because it doesn't. Products rarely subscribe to Patriotism.

Anyway; ignore me and continue on... My apologies to all.

38

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

yes the country of manufacture has a great deal to do with quality especially when they dont use/have access to good quality materials or workmanship to manufacture with like China and other old tech countries India and a couple others have out dated tool and die used to make metal items sold in cheap stores like harbor freight as more of a display novelty item like old style transits, compasses, sextants, Knives..

This is certainly not the case with China.  Apple products are made in China, and they are state of the art, quality manufactured goods.   If you pay top dollar for things made in China, you will get top quality.  If you pay bottom dollar, you will get low quality.  People want to buy things as cheap as possible and the Chinese are willing to offer it, but often sacrifice quality to achieve that rock bottom price.  That doesn't mean they aren't capable of producing high quality when customers are willing to pay the price it takes to get it.

39 (edited by n2ri 2014-08-12 04:34:20)

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

maybe but I have yet to see any top quality products from there even at top dollar. quite the contrary. just 1 example. how many other countrys still make and sell child and infant toys with lead based paint on them or Christmas tree lights with lead powder on the plastic wires insulation. any lead based products  where banned in the USA by the late 60s

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

40

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

5gallon buckets with the screw top gamma seal lids and dessicant, works great for me.

41

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

Briggs wrote:

5gallon buckets with the screw top gamma seal lids and dessicant, works great for me.

where do ya find the ones with screw on lids? do lids also have rubber seal?

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

42

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

I use "Iris watertight totes" with some rechargeable desiccates. The bins work really well and come in all different sizes. The two desiccates need to be recharged every few months.

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43

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

Yes rubber seals! They keep things tight. Home Depot.

44

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

only type Home depot has here is snap on lids, not screw on and very hard removing even after cutting coller

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

45

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

I found 4$ shrink wrap and .01 per packet dessicant on line. Used Amazon prime and got free shipping.
Wrapping the filament with the dessicant package inside works great for me. The filament actually gets drier as time goes on.
Super cheap and effective

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46

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

Go to homedepot.com

Type gamma into their search.

You will see the lids now also under the leaktite brand

Check your local store inventory or order online.

47

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

I have a vacuum sealer and have thought about turning some sturdy storage boxes into vacuum chambers for my filament. I have about a dozen spools right now so a single box would do. They don't have a vacuum port, however..

For now, I have a damp-rid in there with them..

What about the vacuum bags for clothes?

Stock SD4 with 3/16" glass attached to stock (kapton-covered) bed with Aquanet.

48 (edited by IronMan 2014-09-24 18:11:01)

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

OK, so here's what I got when I tore open some of my friend's discarded Stratasys Cartridges:

Notice the Desiccant packs within the corner voids; the rubber gasket around the spool area to seal off the entire chamber including a grommet where the filament exits; and the dual rollers to guide the filament...so you get great storage and just plug it in when ready.

http://i.imgur.com/6mfm3pz.png

It's strange that Stratasys neither credits nor pays for shipping to return the used cartridges.  My buddy says it's just not worth it to him to ship the empties back.  A shame!  I suppose I could just rewind and re-use these as opposed to discarding them.  Any other ideas?

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49

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

I usually stored all my filaments
- no direct sunlight
- no heat source
- dry
- circulated area

For opened box filament, I keep all of them in an electric dehumidifier to dry them up even more.  I typically dry them up to around 10% - 15% humidity.

I know many of us don't have an electric dehumidifier.
You can try this instead.
Preparation:
a container with lid that is able to seal tight (water proof)
package of dehumidifier (also known as desiccant)
Keep all opened filament inside the container along with the desiccant.  This will keep them around 35% humidity level depending on how long and how many desiccant to keep inside.  But 35% is an acceptable level.

Give it a try smile

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50

Re: Filament Storage Ideas?

Ironman,

Those cartridges are too cool.  I would make sure he did not discard them if he was my friend.  I'm sure you could retrofit them in some way.  I would need to see the inner workings a little better.  Very cool though.

If you build it they will come. Then they will make fun of it, tell you it's not worth doing and go home and try to copy you.
If a picture is worth a thousand words then being there is worth a thousand pictures.

(2) Stock Makerbot Z18s, Filastruder w/Melt Filter, Filawinder, Autodesk Inventor Design Suite 2014 .........so far.