26 Reply by pcm81

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

Just checked something:
There is about 4x more play in the Y direction than in the X direction on SD3. That is the axis that the play in swing arm contributes to. Finding a way to secure that wing arm on the other end might help a bit; for example extrude a cylinder outward just to the right of the screw hole and have matching hole on the swing arm. I think item #4 in my earlier post would be the biggest helper, b/c it can take mechanical advantage of a moment arm.

By the way, for all readers jumping into this thread now; THIS IS NOT A GRIPE; E3D is a good solid part and the extruder i got was FREE. The purpose of this critique is to improve the design and user experience for future customers.

27 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

wardjr wrote:

Myself and many other users have 100's maybe 1000's of hours printing with the MK-5.  I never had any slop or play so I really want to figure out what went wrong with yours.  Was I right,  is some of it melted in the picture?

He filed it and it probably melted because he wasn't running the E3D supplied fan.

I can also attest the design is good - I've used one off wardjr's printer for 400 hours or so, no swing arm, no melting, no wobble. You have to clean it up a bit with an exacto blade sometimes, but that's why its $5 (or free in your case) - DIY.

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28 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

pcm81 wrote:

Just checked something:
There is about 4x more play in the Y direction than in the X direction on SD3. That is the axis that the play in swing arm contributes to. Finding a way to secure that wing arm on the other end might help a bit; for example extrude a cylinder outward just to the right of the screw hole and have matching hole on the swing arm. I think item #4 in my earlier post would be the biggest helper, b/c it can take mechanical advantage of a moment arm.

By the way, for all readers jumping into this thread now; THIS IS NOT A GRIPE; E3D is a good solid part and the extruder i got was FREE. The purpose of this critique is to improve the design and user experience for future customers.

This isn't needed. I'm going to go take a video of a proper extruder body. Its solid.

Video:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/178 … 4%20PM.mov

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29 Reply by pcm81

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

Attached are some more pictures. The video you posted above looks much more solid than what i am seeing. I was running without the included fan, however i had my own 80mm fan running instead.

At this point my main purpose is to help the community to improve the design, because as community grows these products will find their way into hands of technologically challenged people, so the more fool proof and robust design we can have less gripes we will hear later.

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30 Reply by pcm81

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

Looking closer, here is what i think:
1. Your extruder is a better fit, but it is the Y direction that is the most woobly on my hot end. In XZ plane the extruder body is holding the hot end pretty well, however is YZ plane it is only the lip and the swing arm that are holding it. I had to force the hot end onto the lip and the swing arm is pretty flimsy (in my copy) hence there is play in YZ plane.  I suspect that if i heated the hot end and melted it into extruder body, rather than having to file the body down to make hot end fit i might have had better luck.

31 Reply by accusedmonk

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

I think he is having problems that the swing arm that is supposed to lock it in place doesn't actually hold it in.  I just got mine back together after all of Lawsy's linear bearing carriages were put on along with his Mk.5 with stock hot end.

The arm isn't secured on the opposite side of it being screwed in, so I added some washers and a connector I had laying around to secure it, worked like a charm.

The hot end wasn't loose in the extruder itself, but it did have plenty of play until I secured that other side.

http://i.imgur.com/liMs9nK.jpg

Bowden SD3, Rumba, E3D hotend, Mk5 with RtRyder changes, Direct drive Y axis and bearings, GT2 pulleys and braided fishing line, Lawsy linear bearing conversion, M3 Z screw.

32 Reply by pcm81

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

elmoret wrote:
wardjr wrote:

Myself and many other users have 100's maybe 1000's of hours printing with the MK-5.  I never had any slop or play so I really want to figure out what went wrong with yours.  Was I right,  is some of it melted in the picture?

He filed it and it probably melted because he wasn't running the E3D supplied fan.

I can also attest the design is good - I've used one off wardjr's printer for 400 hours or so, no swing arm, no melting, no wobble. You have to clean it up a bit with an exacto blade sometimes, but that's why its $5 (or free in your case) - DIY.

Yeah, I totally agree that its a free extruder, and I am not griping about it; just trying to help comunity improve its "go-to" designs with feedback of what could happen. Many of us are designers, engineers or other technically oriented people in real life, so I am trying to give feedback/input/suggestions on what "could" go wrong and how to avoid it.

A single piece extruder mount/fan mount would probably be the biggest and easiest upgrade.

I just got an idea. Will try to glue fan mount to extruder and hot end then see if it helped the wooble.

33 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

accusedmonk wrote:

I think he is having problems that the swing arm that is supposed to lock it in place doesn't actually hold it in.  I just got mine back together after all of Lawsy's linear bearing carriages were put on along with his Mk.5 with stock hot end.

The arm isn't secured on the opposite side of it being screwed in, so I added some washers and a connector I had laying around to secure it, worked like a charm.

The hot end wasn't loose in the extruder itself, but it did have plenty of play until I secured that other side.

Looks to me like your getting some nice prints from your machine.  This was one that had a larger groove mount for the E3D and can easily run without the locking arm and still not wobble.  He just got a bad one.

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34 Reply by pcm81

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

accusedmonk wrote:

I think he is having problems that the swing arm that is supposed to lock it in place doesn't actually hold it in.  I just got mine back together after all of Lawsy's linear bearing carriages were put on along with his Mk.5 with stock hot end.

The arm isn't secured on the opposite side of it being screwed in, so I added some washers and a connector I had laying around to secure it, worked like a charm.

The hot end wasn't loose in the extruder itself, but it did have plenty of play until I secured that other side.

http://i.imgur.com/liMs9nK.jpg

Looks like exactly what i am talking about; however my hot end in longer, so play is more noticeable.

35 Reply by accusedmonk

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

pcm81 wrote:

Looks like exactly what i am talking about; however my hot end in longer, so play is more noticeable.

Try locking it down like I did, I had the same issue as you, no where near as bad though.  I added the washers and connector before I ran it and I do have a fan on the front of mine, I just removed it for the picture.  It gets quite hot up there so I won't be using the stock end for long, I have the E3D end to upgrade to soon.

Mine works fine with no wobble at all now, I printed these parts myself.  All the dimensions are right, I just wasn't satisfied with the wiggle it had is all!

Bowden SD3, Rumba, E3D hotend, Mk5 with RtRyder changes, Direct drive Y axis and bearings, GT2 pulleys and braided fishing line, Lawsy linear bearing conversion, M3 Z screw.

36 Reply by pcm81

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

accusedmonk wrote:
pcm81 wrote:

Looks like exactly what i am talking about; however my hot end in longer, so play is more noticeable.

Try locking it down like I did, I had the same issue as you, no where near as bad though.  I added the washers and connector before I ran it and I do have a fan on the front of mine, I just removed it for the picture.  It gets quite hot up there so I won't be using the stock end for long, I have the E3D end to upgrade to soon.

Mine works fine with no wobble at all now, I printed these parts myself.  All the dimensions are right, I just wasn't satisfied with the wiggle it had is all!

I am gluing the fan shrowed to the extruder base now. and will add the washr like yours; that definitely should help. have one of these on order:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALL-METAL-STATE … 27dc88228c

should be interesting to see how it works.

37 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

I was actually referring to the absence of moire in the print of the mount.
I have 100's of hours on this one and now I have moved it to my kids SD3 and it still has no wobble.
http://i.imgur.com/S1U0ch3.jpg
Of course we never ran it upside down with the wrong fan and melted it either.
I think you should redesign a better one... there is always room for improvement smile

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38 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

pcm81 wrote:
accusedmonk wrote:
pcm81 wrote:

Looks like exactly what i am talking about; however my hot end in longer, so play is more noticeable.

Try locking it down like I did, I had the same issue as you, no where near as bad though.  I added the washers and connector before I ran it and I do have a fan on the front of mine, I just removed it for the picture.  It gets quite hot up there so I won't be using the stock end for long, I have the E3D end to upgrade to soon.

Mine works fine with no wobble at all now, I printed these parts myself.  All the dimensions are right, I just wasn't satisfied with the wiggle it had is all!

I am gluing the fan shrowed to the extruder base now. and will add the washr like yours; that definitely should help. have one of these on order:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALL-METAL-STATE … 27dc88228c

should be interesting to see how it works.

That looks like a tidy little unit it'll be interesting to see your review.
I have been very happy with the BulldogXL.
http://i.imgur.com/tVBfLTM.jpg

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

wardjr's Website

39 Reply by pcm81

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

wardjr wrote:

I was actually referring to the absence of moire in the print of the mount.
I have 100's of hours on this one and now I have moved it to my kids SD3 and it still has no wobble.
http://i.imgur.com/S1U0ch3.jpg
Of course we never ran it upside down with the wrong fan and melted it either.
I think you should redesign a better one... there is always room for improvement smile

I will try to design some improvements into the MK5, and share it on the forum when time permits; have to go fix helicopters tomorrow (not a toy ones). It is definitely a good, basic, design; however when its limits start to get pushed it gets frustrating.

40 Reply by accusedmonk (edited by accusedmonk 2014-04-21 03:05:55)

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

Thanks for the compliment ward.  I'm sure I've spent quite a few hours or hell days working on the accuracy of my doodle.

I might not have tightened up the bolt on the arm very much to make it secure. I felt it would just strip out before I got it to where I felt it was snug so I didn't risk it.

I really like the redesign that RTRyder did for his E3D, check his post here http://www.soliforum.com/post/48964/#p48964

I asked him at the end of that thread to post his extruder stl.  Hopefully you can get your printer working fine in the mean time pcm to print his version out, or have time to design your own like ward said!

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41 Reply by pcm81

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

wardjr wrote:
pcm81 wrote:
accusedmonk wrote:

Try locking it down like I did, I had the same issue as you, no where near as bad though.  I added the washers and connector before I ran it and I do have a fan on the front of mine, I just removed it for the picture.  It gets quite hot up there so I won't be using the stock end for long, I have the E3D end to upgrade to soon.

Mine works fine with no wobble at all now, I printed these parts myself.  All the dimensions are right, I just wasn't satisfied with the wiggle it had is all!

I am gluing the fan shrowed to the extruder base now. and will add the washr like yours; that definitely should help. have one of these on order:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALL-METAL-STATE … 27dc88228c

should be interesting to see how it works.

That looks like a tidy little unit it'll be interesting to see your review.
I have been very happy with the BulldogXL.
http://i.imgur.com/tVBfLTM.jpg


/drool

42 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

Nothing a little money can't fix.  A couple more days working on helicopters should do it smile
Down side is it has more mass and can tear things apart like say you were printing 40 MK-5's with the speed cranked up. wink

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43 Reply by accusedmonk

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

wardjr wrote:

Nothing a little money can't fix.  A couple more days working on helicopters should do it smile
Down side is it has more mass and can tear things apart like say you were printing 40 MK-5's with the speed cranked up. wink

I was just wondering how fast you've gotten that monster up to ha, is it geared as well?

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44 Reply by pcm81

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

wardjr wrote:

Nothing a little money can't fix.  A couple more days working on helicopters should do it smile
Down side is it has more mass and can tear things apart like say you were printing 40 MK-5's with the speed cranked up. wink

I was actually looking at that ebay extruder for couple months now. went with e3d, b/c figured mod was simpler...

More mass BHA MOAR POWA. Have 30A 12V DC supply waiting if needed.

45 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

accusedmonk wrote:
wardjr wrote:

Nothing a little money can't fix.  A couple more days working on helicopters should do it smile
Down side is it has more mass and can tear things apart like say you were printing 40 MK-5's with the speed cranked up. wink

I was just wondering how fast you've gotten that monster up to ha, is it geared as well?

it is geared 5.2:1
I usually run for quality about 100 mm/s on pretty much everything.  For all the MK-5's though I then ran the feed rate up to 200+.  So if that is really a percentage than that would be 200mm/s.  I run spectra line instead of belts so on large smooth objects I routinely run 300 mm/s.  It really just depends on the print and what it is intended for.  There is no question that with speed you compromise reliability and quality when something breaks.  I am not really a speed freak I just like to optimize my printers time.  I have not really tried to test for max speed as it is only relevant to the particular print your working on.

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46 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

pcm81 wrote:
wardjr wrote:

Nothing a little money can't fix.  A couple more days working on helicopters should do it smile
Down side is it has more mass and can tear things apart like say you were printing 40 MK-5's with the speed cranked up. wink

I was actually looking at that ebay extruder for couple months now. went with e3d, b/c figured mod was simpler...

More mass BHA MOAR POWA. Have 30A 12V DC supply waiting if needed.

SD's motors are already maxed out.  My printer isn't short on power as far as PSU goes.

As far as the simplicity of the mod it should have been, you were just unlucky.  Tim will check the rest of that batch and make sure the rest of them are good to go.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

wardjr's Website

47 Reply by pcm81

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

wardjr wrote:
pcm81 wrote:
wardjr wrote:

Nothing a little money can't fix.  A couple more days working on helicopters should do it smile
Down side is it has more mass and can tear things apart like say you were printing 40 MK-5's with the speed cranked up. wink

I was actually looking at that ebay extruder for couple months now. went with e3d, b/c figured mod was simpler...

More mass BHA MOAR POWA. Have 30A 12V DC supply waiting if needed.

SD's motors are already maxed out.  My printer isn't short on power as far as PSU goes.

As far as the simplicity of the mod it should have been, you were just unlucky.  Tim will check the rest of that batch and make sure the rest of them are good to go.

Originally i was not intending that other extruder for SD3. Lets just say some stepper motor amplifiers are also on long term shopping list; it will take 4  just to drive the stage of little thing i am building as time permits... But need SD3 fixed to make parts.

48 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

That's the fun stuff right there... Modding and developing is addictive wink

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49 Reply by bullzandbearz

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Re: Replacement hot end for SD3

This is my first time visit at here and i am actually happy to read
all at single place.

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