1 Topic by hy-bye

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Topic: Max hotend temp on SD4

What is the max hot end temp i can use on my SD4 with the newest version of hot end.

I wonder because a lot of ABS is sold with a extruding temp of 230 to 245 °C and i could only manage successful prints with a temp of 220°C

If that is the max temp indeed, what can be done to get a higher temp, since some special filament is asking for up to 300°C.

What i've found so far, is to replace the original hot end with another one, but i think thats not really necessary.

Since the new hot end is all metal,I think the only problem is in the heating, the sensory and the firmware.

2 Reply by ronsii (edited by ronsii 2014-04-06 15:36:09)

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

The SD printers temperature sensor reads about 20-30 degrees lower than what the hotend is actually at... so if you want to extrude filament at 230C you would set the SD printer at 200C - 210C

You can change to an all metal hotend like the E3D and achieve temps in excess of 300C if you want smile it is not too hard to do if you have some tinkering skills and best of all it's not really expensive smile

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/4415/e3d … stributor/

edit: I just noticed you had a SD4.. SD says it reads more accurate than the previous models but I don't have one to confirm... I think it still reads low but maybe not 20-30C more like  10-20C

3 Reply by hy-bye

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

I checked the temperature and it is quite precise.
Set to 220 measured between 220 to 224.

When i tried to print with 225° it started ok but after 1 hour it probably overshot and and the hot end was switched off.

Which resulted in printing 'air' since all the Axes where still moving.

To exchange it with an E3D wouldn't be a problem, but can the original firmware handle it?

4 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

Nope you'll have to flash the firmware with new max temp limits.  If you haven't ever played with updating firmware you will want to research it out some and decide if your up to the task.  There are plenty of people here that have done it (myself included) and would be happy to help you through the process.

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5 Reply by ronsii (edited by ronsii 2014-04-06 21:54:34)

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

One other thing Hy-bye, have you done the auto-tune for the PID's on the hot end? if not this will improve resistance to overshooting the desired temps.

http://www.soliwiki.com/PID_tuning

6 Reply by hy-bye

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

as soon as the hot end reaches 230°C it's shut down.
I guess that is the limit set in the firmware.

What if I change the firmware limit to a higher value and try then, what teh new hot end can do?

Is there a hardware that could be destroyed by trying this?

7 Reply by ronsii

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

The 'peek' (black round part) will melt, it actually starts to soften when you get near 230C. you really should not have to be that hot to extrude... something else is going on here...

8 Reply by solijohn

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

hy-bye wrote:

I checked the temperature and it is quite precise.
Set to 220 measured between 220 to 224.

When i tried to print with 225° it started ok but after 1 hour it probably overshot and and the hot end was switched off.

Which resulted in printing 'air' since all the Axes where still moving.

To exchange it with an E3D wouldn't be a problem, but can the original firmware handle it?

Where did you measure and with what?

Your filament should work just fine at our default temperatures.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

9 Reply by hy-bye

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

There's nothing else going on, wink
At the Moment i'm printing ABS at 220°C and it is working.
But there are other special filaments out there which ask for a higher temp.

I'm sure you know how that is.
You don't really need something, but you'd like to know, if it's possible. wink

That means i'll keep looking for a replacement hot end that will survive higher temp.

Are you sure the 'peek' at the new hot end on the SD4 will melt at a temperature over 230?

Why would SD use a new hot end which such a limitation if they know that there is a use for higher temps?

10 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

hy-bye wrote:

There's nothing else going on, wink
At the Moment i'm printing ABS at 220°C and it is working.
But there are other special filaments out there which ask for a higher temp.

I'm sure you know how that is.
You don't really need something, but you'd like to know, if it's possible. wink

That means i'll keep looking for a replacement hot end that will survive higher temp.

Are you sure the 'peek' at the new hot end on the SD4 will melt at a temperature over 230?

Why would SD use a new hot end which such a limitation if they know that there is a use for higher temps?

Because the SD is designed to print PLA or ABS.  The hot end they use is fine for those filaments.  It is not an all metal hot end and can not handle temps higher than what they have it set for.  If you want to move to different filaments then you will need an all metal hot end such as the E3D.  It would be really nice if you posted a close up picture of your hot end.  I believe SD switched to a non standard groove mount but I couldn't tell you when.  With a good picture I can tell you if an E3D would work and if not advise what other changes would have to be made.

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11 Reply by hy-bye

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

Thanks.

Pictures will follow tomorrow.

12 Reply by gtennefoss

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

To use an e3d hot end with the new extruder, you will have to turn down the top of the e3d to fit the new extruder.

13 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

gtennefoss wrote:

To use an e3d hot end with the new extruder, you will have to turn down the top of the e3d to fit the new extruder.

At that point wouldn't it be easier to switch to an MK-5 or the like?  Any chance you have a nice photo of one or preferably of the extruder mount itself?

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14 Reply by hy-bye

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

@solijohn
Your question tells me, that you don't trust my thermometer. Does that mean, the new hot end still shows the wrong temperature?

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15 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

Your hotend is not all metal.

Filastruder - the robust, inexpensive filament extruder
E3Dv6 All Metal Hotend - the premier 3D printing hotend

16 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

So looking at your pictures... I can't see any reason that you couldn't use an MK-5 to hold an E3D.  It would be nice to have a picture of it disassembled so I can see the bolts.

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17 Reply by hy-bye

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

wardjr wrote:

So looking at your pictures... I can't see any reason that you couldn't use an MK-5 to hold an E3D.  It would be nice to have a picture of it disassembled so I can see the bolts.

That's only gonna happen after i took it apart to install a E3D.

I'm also thinking about to modify or build a new Holder(Alu) to fit the E3D.

The only critical thing seems to be the hight. The E3D seems to be longer.
But if i move the hot-end in Y so that i can also move it in Z, it could fit.

18 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

hy-bye wrote:
wardjr wrote:

So looking at your pictures... I can't see any reason that you couldn't use an MK-5 to hold an E3D.  It would be nice to have a picture of it disassembled so I can see the bolts.

That's only gonna happen after i took it apart to install a E3D.

I'm also thinking about to modify or build a new Holder(Alu) to fit the E3D.

The only critical thing seems to be the hight. The E3D seems to be longer.
But if i move the hot-end in Y so that i can also move it in Z, it could fit.

That's a great idea you should look at the design of the MK-5 for inspiration.  It is a simple and effective design and would be a great place to start.  You definitely lose some height with the E3D but you could gain a little back by moving it closer to the drive pulley.  Before you invest a bunch of time and money into an aluminum mount you should just print one up until you refine your design.  This may also be the perfect time to look into linear bearings.

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19 Reply by hy-bye

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

The work is done.

As i thought i had to move  the e3d 4mm in Y and lost about 15mm in Z-hight.
The Alu-Holder was replaced with a new one (stl follows after the long weekend).

With an Adapterplate one could move the whole Extruder in Z, but in my opinion, that would move it to near do the roof and could probably hinder the filament.

The parts i needed are:
1 new Alu Holder with 1 M5 Screw
1 Washer 4mm
1 Z-Adapter for the Z-Reference (or a 15mm longer screw)
3 M3*30mm Screws (the original ones are to short)


For now i removed the fan on the left side and have finally 200mm in X.

But if necessary i could put it back on.

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20 Reply by hy-bye

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

used stl-files

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21 Reply by Miroule

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Re: Max hotend temp on SD4

So did you managed to change the temperature limit on your SD4? I guess the motherboard is not that easy to flash...