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Topic: The dreaded "Y" Skip

I knw this has been discussed many times before, and until now, I only had it happen to me once.

At that time I put a fan on the Sanguinololu board, and never had another issue.  This past weekend I finished my RAMPS installation, and did a few calibration tests and everything looked fine.

Then the other day I printed a couple of the pieces for my minion chess set, only to find that the printer skipped backward a few times during the print.  Take a look at the pieces printed before, and now.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=4796

So what could be the problem?  I know it's not overheating, and it's not doing it during the calibration process. 

This morning I tried printing it again, and the results were the same, only the skips happened at different layers than before.  There this time there were only 3 skips: 2 of about 2mm backwards, then one of 1mm forward. 

I also tried printing a domed piece (a pot lid handle replacement):  70mm diameter x 10mm tall.  When it was done, you could tell it had skipped back a few times during the print

I really don't know what to make of this.  Any suggestions?

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To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

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Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

Since your RAMPS install have you adjusted the VREF of the steppers?

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

3

Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

Yes I have, I even tried lower values, and higher values, but I still get it the skip, AND it's only on the "Y".

I'm actually thinking about taking the Palolus from the old Saguino board and fitting them on the RAMPS

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

4

Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

I have a similar issue, which i thought was over heating in my SD3. In the end I realised was the set screw holding the pully to the shaft that is slipping. You can try taking the set screw out and screwing it back in again

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Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

I agree with aaronboo, that would be first thing I would check. Second, look for a mechanical source of high friction. For me recently it was my dried out y axis idler pulleys. A little oil solved this problem. Also, I have had bad drivers. Swap out your driver and see if problem remains.

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Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

The other one which bit me was the actual filament tension.  Occasionally it would bind on the spool when the head was travelling forward, causing the "Y" skip exactly as you are seeing there.  The filament would then "shock" loose, so you couldn't tell the problem unless you caught it in the act.

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Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

aaron and briggs beat me too it. i had some Y skipping it was a combo of my belts needed tightened and the rods needed greased.

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Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

Well, in my case it turned out to be a bad stepper.  Once I replaced it with a spare, the skip went away.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

9

Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

Glad you figured it out smile

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

10

Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

This community is so amazing!  Almost every time I have come here with a problem with my machine, someone else has posted the same problem and everyone has pitched in to figure out what is wrong.  I have had this exact problem with the last 2 big prints I have done.  I have just switched to a newer computer for my printing machine, one that I felt had a better processor and memory, only to find out that the on-board video sucks so bad that the drawing of the project has to be turned off during the process.  Now this stepping thing has hit me and I was looking at the computer as being the culprit.  I will try lubing the Y axis rods and see if that helps.  Any other suggestions would be deeply appreciated!

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Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

Bad news for me.  Within the first couple of mm. the first step occurred.  Of course I wasn't looking at the time it happened.  What next?  If I need to attach a fan, where on the board would be best to connect to the 12v rail?

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Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

GorillaBob wrote:

Bad news for me.  Within the first couple of mm. the first step occurred.  Of course I wasn't looking at the time it happened.  What next?  If I need to attach a fan, where on the board would be best to connect to the 12v rail?

Which board do you have (Sanguinololu, Printrboard, RAMPS, etc)

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

13

Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

pirvan,
I have a SD3 with the original board.  From what I can tell, that would make it a Printrboard right?  I don't see that anything is written on it besides the SD logo and trademark.

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Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

GorillaBob wrote:

pirvan,
I have a SD3 with the original board.  From what I can tell, that would make it a Printrboard right?  I don't see that anything is written on it besides the SD logo and trademark.

If you got your printer about the time you registered than it is most likely the Printerboard REV E.  Should be printed on the lower right of the board as viewed from the back of the machine.  Have you adjusted the VREF for that motor?

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

15

Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

If you don't have a fan on that board you need to.  I would think any 12V pins available would handle a small fan.  Otherwise tie directly into the input power.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

16

Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

No, I have never checked the vref, for the Y axis correct?  Is there a link to a "How To" video or instructions?  Will I need an Fluke meter or will a Harbor Freight cheepy be good enough?

I was reading on another thread and they mentioned the motor being a little week for the job.  Is that something I should look into replacing? 

The printer is being used in my Jr. High Computer class and repairs and replacements will probably have to come out of my pocket.  It is too hard getting the school district to do anything.

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Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

What I can tell you is if everything mechanically moves smoothly and the belts aren't binding.  You can use a cheap meter or do it like I do and adjust by ear.  Set that axis to move slowly and ever so slightly adjust it until the motor sounds as smooth as possible.  Before you adjust it you could place a small desk fan at that board to see if it is temperature related.  Adjusting the VREF's isn't as hard as it sounds just use a ceramic screwdriver or the like.  It only takes a very small adjustment to make a big difference.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

18

Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

The "original" board that came with the SD3 was the Sanguinololu.  Sometime mid last year they switched to the Printrboard.  Take a look at your board in the back.  Which one does it look like?

Here is a Sanguinololu
http://reprapbook.appspot.com/images/Sanguinololu.jpg

Here is a Printrboard
http://makemendel.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/600x600/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/img_5475.jpg

Notice that the Printrboard doesn't have plug-in type steppers like the Sanguino.  On both boards you can adjust the voltage (vRef) using the little trimpot.  Adrian has posted a tutorial on ho how to adjust the vRef and the values you should adjust to.  Do a search for vRef adjustment or tuning.

Even without that reference.  Try adjusting the "Y" trimpot clockwise just a little, 1/8th of a turn, and see if it helps.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

19

Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

definitely the 2nd board except it is green.  I plugged an old 120mm fan into an old power supply and set it on the counter behind the machine.  I have it printing the last design it messed up on.

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Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

GorillaBob wrote:

definitely the 2nd board except it is green.  I plugged an old 120mm fan into an old power supply and set it on the counter behind the machine.  I have it printing the last design it messed up on.

fingers crossed?

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

21

Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

Amen Brother! smile lol

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Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

Well it didn't do it as badly but still isn't good.

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Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

GorillaBob wrote:

Well it didn't do it as badly but still isn't good.

That's no good.  Have you loosened the set screws on the belt to motor pulleys or remove the belt.  Then move the extruder front to back by hand to feel if it travels smoothly?  Also the VREF could still be slightly off but you need to check for smooth motion of the mechanical side first. 
Those side belts need to be aligned with each other by loosening the set screw on the drive pulley so it can rotate freely on the rear Y-shaft.  Then adjust the tension of the side belts equally.  Then tighten the set screw on the left side first.   Move the carriage front to back until the right side feels like it is resting in a nice neutral position and tighten the left setscrew.  Then check for smooth operation of the Y- Axis and repeat if necessary.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

24

Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

I have previously loosened the stop nuts and adjusted them to make circles more round but I will give it a try again and check the VREF also.

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Re: The dreaded "Y" Skip

GorillaBob wrote:

I have previously loosened the stop nuts and adjusted them to make circles more round but I will give it a try again and check the VREF also.

VREF's can be tricky it's a trade off to low they skip but are  nice and quiet to high and they get noisy and can still skip. They really just need to be just right.  Focus on the mechanical smoothness first it really doesn't take much to bind things up.  Do you have a fan blowing on the printer board?

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions