1 (edited by pastprimitive 2014-02-06 22:56:47)

Topic: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

I've been on an upgrade spree with my SD3, and I am loving the print improvements I am getting from it.  I am weighing the pros and cons of a new bed heater, and which print surface to go with.  I've done the standard Kapton of course, home depot glass and hair spray... I went to Lowes today and they cut a 12" x  12" granite tile down to my needed 8" x 8".  And so far I really love not needing to use clamps anymore, like I did with glass, the great print adhesion (using hairspray as well, should I not?) And also I went with a black piece of high gloss honed granite.  It makes prints look great as they are printed, and is much easier to adjust my bed alignment to the extruder head. Plus the granite is absolutely rock solid when it came up to temperature. 

The stone seems 0.15mm +/- tolerance, but not sure how that will play out with actual printing, that was simply dial gauge measurements.  The other down side is additional heating time for the bed.  I have already modded my sanguino board's traces to the power MOSFET for the bed heating element with beefy 16 gauge wire jumpers, and that actually really seems to have helped my stock bed element performance improve quite a bit.

That in addition to the mighty 12 V 54 amp power supply upgrade.  Anyhow I haven't tested my lower heat-up-time-to-print limits yet, but from my observations it's looking in the 15 minute neighborhood with the granite tile. With the Glass it was 8-10 minutes. 

Update: Some pictures of my setup...
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-SqTyezZOwWY/UvQLAxd8uzI/AAAAAAAAARs/6MebgutkbI8/w958-h716-no/photo+3.JPG
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-EQVM_gyI74M/UvQLAxRs9yI/AAAAAAAAARo/GiqOXaEIn4c/w571-h764-no/photo+2.JPG
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2aQ_A9-iZ3I/UvQLA0JBP0I/AAAAAAAAARw/9_mtcMYdQqo/w571-h764-no/photo+1.JPG

I'm not stuck on any one solution, just really wanting to maximize my experience with my baby, and am curious if I'll get better heat up times/ flatness from a different setup? Or preferably if I just upgrade my heating element if I will see a great improvement in my granite heat up time.

Honestly the granite seems amazing as far as printing goes, also the weight of it seems to help dampen any print vibrations when printing at higher speeds

Using stock hot end with a Lawsy MK 5 extruder (thanks Lawsy). But I am tempted to upgrade to an E3d so I can print with experimental filament.  I'll be picking up a filastruder and filawinder (thanks IanJohnson) once my tax return check arrives. Anyhow is the E3d worth it, better alternative? What are the exact benefits besides being able to go up to nuclear temperatures of 300C?

Thanks for anyone who takes the time to read these ramblings.

2

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

I'd tend to suspect that you'd almost have to have a better bed heater with a block of granite that needs heating up. I've got all the bits for a qu-bd print bed, but haven't yet got up the energy to change the connectors and solder the helper wires onto my printrboard that are probably needed to supply the power to the bed heater.

3 (edited by wardjr 2014-02-06 15:55:02)

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

I don't think it's any secret that I really love my E3D....That being said the best and most important upgrade I've made is the bed heater.  I decided to go with a Solid State Relay and power a 500W silicone heat pad via 110AC.  This setup heats up in a matter of seconds.  I can't speak for soak time with a piece of granite but a piece of glass will be ready to print on in about a minute.  I just didn't like waiting for the heat up time when I was ready to print something.  I have tried other bed heater options and this is the one I like the best.  It was about $70 for everything and install was quick and easy.  I did have to change the firmware to help regulate the temps but at this point it will hold a flat line at 108 just fine.
Here's a post that discusses some of the install process and also clearly shows just how little I knew about any of this stuff.
http://www.soliforum.com/topic/3209/what-chip-do-i-have
This link is a good read about bed heaters.
http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2230/the … ed-setups/

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

4 (edited by pastprimitive 2014-02-06 15:54:16)

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

I actually have a solid state relay lying around coincidentally from another project. Nice 30 amp 120 volt one too. A one minute heat up time sounds really really appealing. Soak time may be more, but still.

5 (edited by wardjr 2014-02-06 16:01:05)

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

Sorry about that it's on there now.  There is another that I helped with that I am trying to find he used 350 watt heater.
Here it is...http://www.soliforum.com/topic/4300/solidoodle-3-mods-and-issues/page/5/

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

6

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

Where did you wire in the DC side of your solid state relay?

7 (edited by wardjr 2014-02-06 17:12:34)

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

http://i.imgur.com/eLoQmyH.jpg

So yes 12V to HB output on board.  AC Hot to SSR AC side. One wire from bed heater to other AC post on SSR.  The other wire to your AC supply Neutral.  It would be a good Idea to run ground wire to your printer case and also from case to platform.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

8

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

Exposed aluminum and wall source not a good idea? J/k

Also thanks for the picture.

9

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

pastprimitive wrote:

Exposed aluminum and wall source not a good idea? J/k

Also thanks for the picture.

That's why I recommend the ground wire and use a good three conductor cord with a ground plug.  Make sure that ground connects all the way up to the platform itself.

All of the safety stuff aside I have run mine for close to a year without the ground going up to the platform (just to the case).
I do however run my whole set up plugged into a GFCI outlet.

So what are you thinking you are going to use for a heat pad?

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

10 (edited by pastprimitive 2014-02-06 22:54:46)

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

Yeah, I'll be sure to be good and ground it well if I go with the AC source.  You bought your pad from mcmasters? How much did you put down for it, and is that a SD3 or SD2?

I love the idea of a super fast heater, but I suppose annoyed with the idea of two plugins for my printer.  No good reasons, and I think I am leaning that way, especially since I have two of these beautiful solid state relays just begging to be used for something important. 

I also posted pictures of my setup above, (or will shortly) that show my upgraded power supply, and setup. 

That is the other thing though that makes it easy for me to go the qubed route.  The pictured supply is a 12V 54 amp supply. Plenty of extra power to run a qubed.  And as pictured has an upgraded cooling fan that keeps it just a few degrees warmer then room temperature when the printer is running full bore.

What size is your heating pad? I'd like to get a 200mm so it get's heat out to the ragged edge.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Ly0PtMrow8w/UvQLB2qbSWI/AAAAAAAAAR4/PyyfUdoDcf8/w958-h716-no/photo+4.JPG

11

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

What about the granite bed makes it so that you don't have to clip it down? Is it just heavy?

Do you use Z-lift?


Thanks smile

12 (edited by pastprimitive 2014-02-06 23:00:05)

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

Yes Tomek it's just that heavy.  And that is one of my favorite features, really helps dampen vibration. I did a .1mm resolution print last night after adding the wellnut upgrade and it looks AMAZING! You can look at the original post to see a picture of the granite.  Honestly I am liking it a lot better than glass.  Plus the black really is nice to print on, and calibrate with. For $5.57  to buy the 12" x 12" tile and have it cut at lowes it was a no-brainer upgrade.

Also what is z-lift?

13

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

Z-lift is the feature in extruder options (assuming you use Slic3r), where you lift the Z-axis a lot as you print a part. It helps avoid knocking into things as you move over parts for travel moving.


What speed is your Z-axis max acceleration set to? Did you have to change any of that?

14

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

I have done quite a few changes in my firmware default settings since I had a Panelolou 2 before there was any solidoodle/solidoodle community firmware support for it.  But no changes to the default z-axis acceleration.  I have however upped my max extruder acceleration to 200 instead of 45.  Seems to help.  I have successfully printed at 300% at .3mm layer resolution.  Of course there is some print quality degradation. Also I have never used the Z-lift feature.  I've always been concerned about moving my z-axis in any other direction but down after a print starts in fear of any backlash that my well nut has not taken out.  But with the new filament change command in the latest marlin release and in a beta by Adrian I may have to lose that fear. 

But usually I solve any crashing issues with puckered edges by lowering extruder temp, or bed temp by a degree or two. I hear an extruder mounted fan solves these puckering issues on difficult prints.

15

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

pastprimitive wrote:

Yes Tomek it's just that heavy. <snip>

How heavy is it. Does it make the print platform sag or have problem rising back up? -- ggunners

SD2 Expert stock, ABS fume fan,
XYZ DaVinci 1.0 stock ABS, Simplify3D
QUBD Two-Up PLA, new 3D printed X gantry, Y idler, flex z coupler, extruder mount, E3D Lite

16

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

pastprimitive wrote:

Yeah, I'll be sure to be good and ground it well if I go with the AC source.  You bought your pad from mcmasters? How much did you put down for it, and is that a SD3 or SD2?

I love the idea of a super fast heater, but I suppose annoyed with the idea of two plugins for my printer.  No good reasons, and I think I am leaning that way, especially since I have two of these beautiful solid state relays just begging to be used for something important. 

I also posted pictures of my setup above, (or will shortly) that show my upgraded power supply, and setup. 

That is the other thing though that makes it easy for me to go the qubed route.  The pictured supply is a 12V 54 amp supply. Plenty of extra power to run a qubed.  And as pictured has an upgraded cooling fan that keeps it just a few degrees warmer then room temperature when the printer is running full bore.

What size is your heating pad? I'd like to get a 200mm so it get's heat out to the ragged edge.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Ly0PtMrow8w/UvQLB2qbSWI/AAAAAAAAAR4/PyyfUdoDcf8/w958-h716-no/photo+4.JPG

My heat pad is 6x9 I also wanted to get out to the edges.  The screws get in the way or I would have gone with an 8x8.  and I couldn't find a 6x8.  It sticks out a bit on the sides but has never caused an issue.  I really like your Idea of using granite and may give that a go... I have had such good results with glass and I am not sure I want to part with any more Z-height.
http://i.imgur.com/QSkdVaK.jpg?1

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

17

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

It is 2lb 12 5/8 oz or 1.27kg to be precise:) (just weighed it for you) I have not noticed any sagging issues, I do have an aluminum bed frame though, and no problems coming back up. The z-axis is actually quite torquey because it is geared down for precise movements at a trade off for speed.  I think I am well below the motor torque limits.

18

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

I thought I really liked glass until I used my granite.  I think it's really worth it to get rid of the clamps.  How do you secure your glass down?

19

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

Notice that you got rid of your spring adjustment on your bed, what's that all about?  Also I was hoping the heating pad would just happen to not have vital components where the screw were so I could just poke holes through it.

20

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

I didn't get rid of the screws rather added a few layers of fiber glass and then a thin sheet of stainless steel I had laying around to hold the fiberglass in place.   The springs are just really compressed.
I don't think you will find a spot to just poke the screws through I had the same though back when I did this and I'm glad I didn't go that route.  The pad I got just doesn't have that much space between the coil wires.
As far as holding the glass I never used clips just sprayed some Aqua-Net on the bottom and it sticks to the kapton very well.  It doesn't move even when a print goes bad and the extruder hits it.  Yet I can easily remove it by sliding a razor blade in between the two.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

21

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

That's a great tip for the glass.  However I am addicted to the black print surface now.  I think I will spray on a coat of black paint to my glass on the back side if I decide to go back.  I think the granite will be better for large prints, and so I might just switch out as needed.

22

Re: Favorite Bed Heater / Print Surface / Hot End Upgrade?

I definitely think the granite affords a much more even heat surface.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions