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Topic: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

Hi everybody
I've not yet seen a mod to truly automate printing process by moving finished objects in a small basket positioned just in front of the printer? Something really simple, that requires almost no additional hardware, unlike the Thing-O-Matic and its conveyor belt.

It could be a bunch of Gcode instructions at the end of the print like these:
- lower heated bed and extruder to a low temperature
- wait for low temperature to get reached
- move heater bed up 5 cm from last position
- position extruder in the middle of the X carriage
- move Y carriage to the front of the printer (+20cm). The printed object should fall down by this point.
- start over again

Of course this method would only work with large, regular-shaped objects. Not advised for tiny or fragile parts.

A more elaborated version could be a small electromagnet placed under the print head that picks up a 20cm metal bar from a given placement behind the heated bed, proceeds sweeping the bed by placing the bar as close as possible to the aluminum bed, then go back to leave the bar to the resting position and releases the magnet.

Nick

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

While this sounds cool. The last thing I would want is my printer head acting ram to eject a part. If the part is really stuck on you will be looking at some stripped gears. It would also have a problem with small parts like you said. Any other ram type assembly could possibly knock the bed out of alignment too if the part sticks.

I have noticed with my work printer, it has disposable print beds, if you flex the bed once the print is done the parts tend to pop off with ease. What might work instead is to figure out someway to have a belt tape bed that would roll the part off the print surface. This might also help people to not tear the tape. This method should work with just about any type of object printed as long as it has had time to cool a bit.

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

Here is one, though not Solidoodle-  http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?1,216570

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

I like the suggestion from the link above if you can simply figure out a way to have the part come loose on it's own from cooling down, then I would have no qualms using my extruder head to push it off the bed.  But that it s probably the trick, figuring out a nice reliable system for ensuring the right amount of stick while printing and not so much that it wont self release once the bed has cooled down.

I think I need to design an upgrade for the solidoodle that would allow for automatic print ejection. I think I will:) Once I get a nice system down, I'll put it up for sale with my aftermarket case I have designed for the SD3. I'm thinking I cold do this system for $50 ish dollars...

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

So my genius wife who is in no way technologically inclined just gave me what is in my mind the obvious solution to this conundrum of not over modding your printer, but allowing for auto ejection while being gentle to the precision companants.  I am going to build an aftermarket upgrade kit I will offer on my e-store, but in the spirit of sharing.  I thought I'd share the angle.

So instead of using the print head to move the part off simply have it go push a button that would activate motorized bulldozer like system that would glide on top of the bed, and have a thin edge that would get under the print, and gently pop it off even when the bed is heated.  Of course I seem to recall there being an extra fan control header on the sanguino board. So I suppose you could use that to power the motor, and simply use gcode to activate the auto eject through that fan control header... But then you have one less fan that can be implemented for later mods.

Anyhow, whole point is view the extruder head merely as a finger that will push a button to activate a completely separate auto eject system.

This may be all vague at this point. Hopefully I will have the upgrade done soon, and it will be much more self evident of what I am saying.

Anyhow I am excited by the prospect for my machine.

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

the bed is really easy to knock out of alignment i dont thing anykind ram or bulldozer is a good idea.  unless you could rapidly cool the build surface without cracking it the part will pactically JUMP off. then a simple servo could sweep the part off without touching the bed

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

MolecularConcept wrote:

the bed is really easy to knock out of alignment i dont thing anykind ram or bulldozer is a good idea.  unless you could rapidly cool the build surface without cracking it the part will pactically JUMP off. then a simple servo could sweep the part off without touching the bed

if the 'bulldozer' were mounted to the bed, then it wouldn't knock it out of alignment.

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

Someone did that with a Solidoodle.  Its on Youtube somewhere.  After the print is done the bed moves down and hits a switch which activates the sweeper, which is a standalone device. It was like a flat stick that would drop down onto the bed and get moved across by a spinning threaded rod.

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

I was thinking of mounting the device to the bed frame so it would reduce stress on the z axis rods.

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

I wanted to add also that my method for removing prints has always been to use a paint scraper ground down only on one side.  I can remove any print, even if it's practically super glued to the bed while it's fully heated with no appreciable strain on the bed. 

Anyhow I see a lot of promise for a well thought out device for auto ejection.  Really makes large print runs very straight forward, not to mention add a web camera and you can easily check up on the printer, and put in remote jobs to the printer.

Of course I know other have done similair setups, perhaps even with a SD, but I'd love to see this as an option anyone can add to the printer. Not just the technically sly of us. And for a price that is reasonable.

It also makes the use of a SD that much more cost effective businesses to utilize in small run production without having to buy multiple machines. 

That's my motivation.

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

I've been looking all over for that, couldn't remember how I ran across it before, and couldn't get it to come up in any searches.  Putting a ram on the extruder is pretty simple though, all you need is some gcode.

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

IanJohnson wrote:

I've been looking all over for that, couldn't remember how I ran across it before, and couldn't get it to come up in any searches.

I finally found it by going through my browsing history. I couldn't find it for the life of me either.


IanJohnson wrote:

Putting a ram on the extruder is pretty simple though, all you need is some gcode.

Do you mean like this?

I feel like the first one could be done using an extra stepper driver using the E1 (second extruder ) slot.
Just wait for bed to be X temp. Lower Bed. E1 motor attached to threaded rod goes 250 mm then returns. return bed and wait for temp, repeat

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

14 (edited by agentsmith 2013-08-07 12:12:11)

Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

wow happy to have sparked such an interest on this guys!

Yeah, the method I thought is exactly shown in the second video 2n2r5 posted, but here the printer removed the part as soon as it finished printing it, doing this as some of you objected it could damage your belts if too much resistance is applied on them.

Also first video is very interesting with the broom concept, but they didn't post any details on how it works apart saying it doesn't require any firmware modification, just gcode.

On my glass tile I've noticed when the temperature goes down past a certain point, something like 60°C, the printed part is not stuck at all anymore.

Any other devices that requires active parts such as stepper motors or electromagnets would be the ultimate choice but also the most complicated, since they would require some sort of interfacing to the Sanguinololu board which features NO spare I/O unfortunately

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

If you wanted to avoid using the extruder as a bulldozer, and don't have motherboard that you can add more motors to, you could always just rig up something that works off of a limit switch.  The idea that came to mind is when the print is finished, have the G code lowered the bed all the way down.  When the bed reaches that point it triggers a limit switch that activates either a sweeper like in the first video or a dozer type arm.  then after a delay in the G code the bed raised up just enough to break the contact of the limit switch which will retract the sweeper or dozer.  Then after another set delay, the printer homes all the axis points and starts another print.

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

that's a cool idea! a limit switch!
But I have no idea on how to position the sweeping device.
If it's attached to the printer floor, its own threaded rod could only get positioned on the front, and the sweep would push the item through the left or right side. But there is little clearance in the front side for a threaded rod, for a self-contained device, especially if you are using office clips to put glass sheet into place.
Probably easier if the whole device sits on the back of the heated bed. That meanse that a printed assembly should be designed to house the stepper motor and threaded rod, but unfortunately my 3D design skills are pretty non-existent at this point sad
At least I can write some Arduino code to run the stepper motor with the delays Randavian said.

Nick

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

I'm working on solving the problem as we speak, and gearing up to build a prototype.  I'll let you know how it goes, and PM you if I create something worth while.

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

Thank you Pastprimitive for you feedback, I'm eager to know what's going on with you prototype.
I'd like to work on it but right now my n. 1 priority is to eradicate z-wobble which is severely affecting my prints sad

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

I quite regularly VNC into my desktop when I'm away and use the print head to push parts off the glass bed so I can print again. I only do it when the temp is < 40c for fear of ruining something. Besides, it's like trying to use a skill tester with a 1-2 second lag smile not to mention avoiding the bulldog clips holding the bed on!

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

I've setup Octoprint server on a Raspberry Pi with a webcam, therefore I could play that game as well smile
But sinc we are talking about a robot, I'd like to have my Solidoodle as automated as possible.
After developing the automated sweeper, we should think about a soft of sensor to detect tangled filament condition, which is one of the possible failure modes.
It could be as simple as a springed arm under the filament that is pressed down when the filament tension increases, and hits a limit switch that sends an abort command to the host.
No idea however on how to detect clogged extruder...

21 (edited by adrian 2013-08-10 15:41:05)

Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

agentsmith wrote:

It could be as simple as a springed arm under the filament that is pressed down when the filament tension increases, and hits a limit switch that sends an abort command to the host

You'll find http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2516/wip … when-idle/ has all the mechanics and firmware mods you need...

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

My problem with this is the hairspray comes off with my parts, so if I'm not there to re-apply the spray I think I will have issues with it not sticking.

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

travis7s wrote:

My problem with this is the hairspray comes off with my parts, so if I'm not there to re-apply the spray I think I will have issues with it not sticking.

Out of curiosity? What plastic? Abs or pla?

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

Sanjay from E3D here,

I'm the guy who created the thread linked by IanJohnson and the video linked by 2n2r5, you might also like this thread:
http://www.soliforum.com/topic/3427/aut … -ejection/

and these videos from my YouTube channel which explain the process in detail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVsNwLVF43w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4S2eFJmhOQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxU3ElVlLPw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8qVSvukxug

The GCODE needed is posted on the thread linked by IanJohnson, but the numbers will obviously need a little tweaking to account for the geometry of your particular machine and ram.

I use this auto-print system in a production environment, I literally run 4 machines 24 hours a day, 7 days a week when I need parts. I have auto-printing completely nailed, to the point where I leave the machines running in my industrial unit overnight while I go home to bed. This has taken a lot of tweaking and observation to get to this point, but it isn't really that hard. The key to all of this is careful selection and preparation of your bed surface. Along with some cunning use of temperature contractions to detach parts when needed. PLA is easy with this setup, ABS is more finicky but certainly doable - most of my autoprints are ABS, and I have done print runs of a whole kilo spool of ABS without stopping the machine.

I use Boots hairspray (contains acrylic-copolymer) on glass for both PLA and ABS.

I Design/Sell the E3D all-metal hotends. My company is called e3d-online - you can buy at www.e3d-online.com

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Re: push printed objects in a basket using the print head

Thank you for your insights Sanjay! This is the proof that it can be accomplished.
But the "ram" method could only work with only certain kind of objects. The ram covers only a small surface of the printbed, therefore you have to carefully program the gcode to swipe where the object has been printed.
I've made a sketch of a full-length sweeper moved by a stepper motor with a threaded rod, now I will have to find the time to put it into practice.
But another idea could be some gcode that sweeps the entire bed surface like an a iRobot vacuum cleaner sweeps the rooms...