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Topic: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

So I have my Solidoodle 3 with Aluminium bed, and I also have a bit of Z banding as you can see on this Tux model I printed.

http://s3.postimg.org/4fleto3ky/2013_05_21_02_39_47.jpg

Even acetone smoothing doesn't get rid of these lines. I've held off on tinkering with this until I'd finished printing a full set of reprap parts, so I can get started on building a backup printer, whatever happens.

I've seen a few suggestions as to what the cause of this banding could be:

Backlash in the Z screw
Z lead screw not being straight
Incorrect setting of layer height
Temperature variations in the bed

Now, I would expect that if it's an issue with the bed expanding due to variations in heating, the banding would occur at odd intervals, and I'd see a variation in my temperature readback.

From what I've read, the banding that I see looks like it's occurring with the same spacing as the thread on the lead screw, which I believe is not what you would expect from the layer height issue.

So assuming I'm right that it's either a bent lead screw or wobble/backlash on the z axis, I have two questions. Which should I try first as a possible solution, and how do you remove the platform safely from the Z screw?

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

you just need an antibacklash setup.  I don't know any ready for the SD3 aluminum bed. but you should be able to adapt something to use the 4 holes around the welded in nut that is the only current z-axis nut.

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

The main problem is with how the threaded rod is manufactured...some better than others.... it leads to uneven repetitive error, there are several ways to mitigate this and make it less noticeable... one is to use a taller nut or multiple nuts which averages out the error.

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

I had the same problem, although mine was not quite as pronounced as yours, but you can check out my solution here:

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2341/poo … -required/

Before you go out and spend some real money on a anti-backlash nut, you should give this a try.  It's simple, doesn't require any modification or disassembly of the printer, and it costs less than $2.

It really helped my printer and apparently it helped others that had similar problems.

Good luck

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

The problem for me is that I went around a few hardware stores, and there aren't any imperial nut sizes on the shelves here in my part of the UK. I've so far seen a bag of those well nuts for $23 + postage online, which is a hefty bill. Which is why I want to be pretty sure any solution I try will work, as it will mean ordering whatever I need. M3 screws fit the holes in the aluminium bed, so I can fit a few of them to hold a well nut in place.

I think I need to keep shopping around.

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

I just ordered these http://www.ebay.com/itm/Helicoil-57255- … :3160#shId

I am in the US so my shipping was just $5 but there you can have the Well Nuts (well 12 of them) for about $5 US and $16 shipping. Still not cheap.

I think these are the right ones, I can let you know in a few days lol

Tammy
Solidoodle 2
E3Dv6 Hotend, MK5 v6 version, Glass Bed, Anti Z backlash slop nut, SureStepr SD8825 1/32 Extruder Driver, makeshift breakaway plexiglass case; . L-Cheapo 3.8 Watt Laser Attachment w/Custom built enclosure
From Buffalo, NY, USA

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

If your lead screw is bent, I'd be looking at using a felxible coupling between the motor and shaft....and while your at it...just get rid of that screw and get a metric one... 1" long brass standoff can be used for the nut smile

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

saymo606 wrote:

If your lead screw is bent, I'd be looking at using a felxible coupling between the motor and shaft....and while your at it...just get rid of that screw and get a metric one... 1" long brass standoff can be used for the nut smile

+1 on a new lead screw, but just switching to a metric one of a similar size won't do much; the trick is to use one with a finer thread pitch like an M3, M4, or M5 rod.  Since the banding width matches the thread pitch of your rod, going to a fine pitch will always eliminate the visible banding.  You'll need to make an adapter for a smaller nut and change the steps-per-mm value in your firmware (which you can do via gcode commands).

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

The other problem with trying to swap the lead screw (on the aluminium bed) would be that the 5/16" nut is part of the bed. How would you swap it without getting an angle grinder onto that part of the bed? There are fittings that shrink screw sizes, for example, that you can screw into an M8 hole to leave an M6 thread hole, but I think you'd have a job finding one that goes from imperial to metric.

I think the anti backlash mod is the one to try, but if I'm spending that much, I may as well look for a proper 5/16" anti-backlash nut. If anyone sees a site that ships to the UK, please let me know, as I'm still looking!

10 (edited by Briggs 2013-05-21 18:12:54)

Re: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

It's a PEM nut. Just wiggle it back and forth. They come right out.

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

I have found a 5/16" nut, at least. Only 85 times the cost of the M8 nuts I bought recently! Perhaps I can cobble together something with that...

Since the idea is to pre-load the thread, maybe a spring washer would work. Just screw the spring washer down with the nut, then fit something to the nut that stops it rotating by fixing it to the M3 screw holes.

I've heard ABS anti-backlash designs have too much flexibility, but I have some metal sheeting, so perhaps I could cut something suitable out of that...

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

314159, check out eBay, pack of ten for 2.79

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

saymo606 wrote:

314159, check out eBay, pack of ten for 2.79

For the Well nuts? What search term are you using? "5/16 well nut" doesn't give anything under £14.19 ($21.53) with postage.
"5/16 backlash" gives me no hits at all.

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

Regular 5/16-18 unc, you can fit a spring over your existing nut and another nut on top of the spring. Devise something to lock the top nut to the bed. You can find a box of assorted springs on eBay for a few pounds. Useful to have lying around too!

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

ok so I have replaced my bed and lead screw myself, I have even fabricated my own stepper and lead screw setup and that is not the problem.

this is the problem with 90% of the banding.

the firmware is incorrect where is say "default steps per unit". furthermore when you slice you stl file in whatever program you're using you're probably making your layer height to .3 or something to this effect. the issue with putting a nice rounded number like .3 is your stepper motor would need to take 42.523033309709426 steps to give you exactly a .3 layer height, but your stepper cannot do this. So you need to slice at a layer height optimum for your lead screw and your stepper motor. this will rid you of banding.

for example a layer height of .13 should actually be set to 0.1270 for an exact number of steps at 18 so now every time your motor steps to a 0.1270 layer height it ends at a full step. see the stepper will end at a full step anyway leaving you with more or less layer height every so many layers giving you a consistent banding making you think its the screw.

no one wants to do the math

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Re: Solidoodle 3 Aluminium bed Z Banding

BRIGHAMVALDEZ wrote:

ok so I have replaced my bed and lead screw myself, I have even fabricated my own stepper and lead screw setup and that is not the problem.

no one wants to do the math

Nope - most of us regulars have all been there, and whilst it helps, its not the only issue. But top stuff if its sorted your problem for you.

And FYI - the calculator is right here; http://calculator.josefprusa.cz/