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Topic: i need some advice for circles and sticking

I've printed a couple of things with exact circular shapes which never seem to come out right.  Straight lines and even curved shapes seem to be fine but perfect circles always seem to come out with a stretched spot.  Almost like a malformed egg shape.  Im using repeiter and slic3r.  Anyone know of a tweak I could try?
I am also having a little trouble getting the corners of square prints to stick to the bed.  I am heating the bed to 100, running abs from octave.  I am starting to think the filament is part of the issue because I don't remember having the problem with the solidoodle natural abs.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

JustSomeGuyTN wrote:

I've printed a couple of things with exact circular shapes which never seem to come out right.  Straight lines and even curved shapes seem to be fine but perfect circles always seem to come out with a stretched spot.  Almost like a malformed egg shape.  Im using repeiter and slic3r.  Anyone know of a tweak I could try?
I am also having a little trouble getting the corners of square prints to stick to the bed.  I am heating the bed to 100, running abs from octave.  I am starting to think the filament is part of the issue because I don't remember having the problem with the solidoodle natural abs.

We have two issues here.

Issue 1: Circles are not circles.
This comes up a lot. It could be as simple as adjusting the tension of your belts, but at worst you might have to make some subtle firmware adjustments.

Issue 2: Prints are not sticking.
Are you sure that your z-tab is properly calibrated? This is often the first problem.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

thanks for the advice.  the left hand belt doesnt twang when plucked like the right.  i am suspicous that the sticking might be only with this one filament.  one question though, would a looose belt affect the squarenesss of a print.  because the squareness of the prints seems realy good.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

JustSomeGuyTN wrote:

thanks for the advice.  the left hand belt doesnt twang when plucked like the right.  i am suspicous that the sticking might be only with this one filament.  one question though, would a looose belt affect the squarenesss of a print.  because the squareness of the prints seems realy good.

No, it shouldn't.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

If your circles are ovals, but still consistently round, you might need to adjust the steps/mm for the X and Y axis.  More likely though what you are seeing is flattened spots at the top and bottom of the circles.  If that is the case, then the problem would be excessive backlash, which can be fixed by getting the belts tensioned properly.

As for the sticking, I have had trouble getting Octave filament to stick as well.  I haven't tried the same print in other ABS, I just gave up an did it in PLA.  I'll have to do a test with my Solidoodle filament and see if there is a difference.   

People have reported having a harder time getting PLA from that manufacturer to stick as well.  It might take a little extra work figuring out how to get it to stick, but if you can get it to work, the cheaper price makes it worthwhile.   Try cleaning the kapton, adding some hairspray or ABS/Acetone mixture, and enclosing the printer.  If none of those work, then you might need to save that filament for prints under 100mm.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

Ian, do you spray the hairspray on top of the kapton and heat the bed?


IanJohnson wrote:

If your circles are ovals, but still consistently round, you might need to adjust the steps/mm for the X and Y axis.  More likely though what you are seeing is flattened spots at the top and bottom of the circles.  If that is the case, then the problem would be excessive backlash, which can be fixed by getting the belts tensioned properly.

As for the sticking, I have had trouble getting Octave filament to stick as well.  I haven't tried the same print in other ABS, I just gave up an did it in PLA.  I'll have to do a test with my Solidoodle filament and see if there is a difference.   

People have reported having a harder time getting PLA from that manufacturer to stick as well.  It might take a little extra work figuring out how to get it to stick, but if you can get it to work, the cheaper price makes it worthwhile.   Try cleaning the kapton, adding some hairspray or ABS/Acetone mixture, and enclosing the printer.  If none of those work, then you might need to save that filament for prints under 100mm.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

Yes, or I used to.  Lately I haven't even been using kapton.  I use the hairspray on a piece of glass that I mount onto the aluminum with binder clips.  The glass is good because I can hold it well clear of the printer while spraying it.  If you are going to spray the kapton on the bed I would recommend using a piece of paper to screen the rest of the printer from overspray.

If I am having a hard time getting something to stick, I'll try putting kapton on the glass, which is much easier than putting it on the aluminum inside the printer.  Actually I have a bare glass, and a glass with kapton that I can switch out.  I can also change glass and let one cool while another heats up, and never turn off heat to the bed.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

I'll second this method... I've been using glass plates for quick turn arounds... I have a couple with Kapton and a couple without... I also finally went to hairspray after stubbornly trying pla and acetone slurry for a while.  The hairspray works almost every time and I never got the other solutions to work with out really coating the bottom with a thick sludge of acetone slurry which ruined the bottom of the prints and never came off the bed.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

JustSomeGuyTN wrote:

I've printed a couple of things with exact circular shapes which never seem to come out right.  Straight lines and even curved shapes seem to be fine but perfect circles always seem to come out with a stretched spot.  Almost like a malformed egg shape.  Im using repeiter and slic3r.  Anyone know of a tweak I could try?
I am also having a little trouble getting the corners of square prints to stick to the bed.  I am heating the bed to 100, running abs from octave.  I am starting to think the filament is part of the issue because I don't remember having the problem with the solidoodle natural abs.

As for the sticking problems, I would change the kapton tape to another piece. Spent many hours trying to get my prints to stick on the stock kapton and it was impossible if I didnt print in the center.
Put on a new piece of kapton and now my problem is almost the opposite.

10 (edited by JustSomeGuyTN 2012-10-20 23:55:06)

Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

I'm pretty sure right now my sticking problem is this particular filament and the size I was printing at.  I printed a smaller object with this filament and it stuck fine.  My main concern now is the out of round circles.  There is a definite flat spot at the top and bottom of the circles.  It looks like the head is going too far in the X direction when it starts to make the top and bottom of the circles.  I've adjusted the Y belts a bit (the X seemed tight enough to me) and I am going to do a test print as soon as my bed heats up.  I've also put a bit of velcro around the wire bundle that goes to the extruder.  I had noticed before that it would bump the left Y belt.

Edit.  I added an image of one of the test circles printing to show what I'm talking about.

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11 (edited by JustSomeGuyTN 2012-10-24 14:00:33)

Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

tightening the y drive belt seemed to help alot.  it reduced the flat area by at least half.  next i am going to try leveling the bed better.

update,

I leveled the bed using a sheet of paper and cleaned the bed with a little bit of acetone.  Now once the bed warms up to 100 the Octave filament is sticking.  Next job is to speed up prints.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

JustSomeGuyTN wrote:

tightening the y drive belt seemed to help alot.  it reduced the flat area by at least half.  next i am going to try leveling the bed better.

update,

I leveled the bed using a sheet of paper and cleaned the bed with a little bit of acetone.  Now once the bed warms up to 100 the Octave filament is sticking.  Next job is to speed up prints.

Sorry if you've been having troubles. Let me know if you are still having trouble getting correct prints.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

Prints look pretty good now.  Thanks for offering help.  The only issue I have now is what I call layer wiggle.  When I have a thin structure (like the tail on the glider from the challenge print) the lower level seems to wiggle a bit as the upper level is being printed.  This can cause some clumping of plastic and can cause the structure being printed to lean.  I'm guessing that there is a setting to fix this somewhere in Slic3r or Repetier.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

@solidoodlesupport

I do have the same problem as JustsomeguyTN

The picture he attached does show the same problem i have.

Can you help me out?
When I tighten up the Belts for Y axes the cornes of my print become flat.
Also there is backlash in Y axes that i cant get rid of, it doesnt get better than 0.25 mm


Thanks.

Breaker

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

breaker wrote:

@solidoodlesupport

I do have the same problem as JustsomeguyTN

The picture he attached does show the same problem i have.

Can you help me out?
When I tighten up the Belts for Y axes the cornes of my print become flat.
Also there is backlash in Y axes that i cant get rid of, it doesnt get better than 0.25 mm


Thanks.

Breaker

Show us pictures.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

16 (edited by breaker 2012-10-25 10:50:27)

Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

@support

Pictures are attached.

@all

How much backlash does your solidoodles havein the Y direction? Mine doenst get better then 0.25mm and it gets worse when I tighten the Belts.

There is 0 Backlash in X and only 0.05mm in Z

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

I did trim the pots a little bit with an multimeter and got the Y axes Backlash to 0.15mm. The Circle is better now but i do have spikes on 2 corners.
Please look at the attached drawing for details.

Hopefully someone can help me.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

Is it a line of bumps, or spikes?  If it is something like a seam, then it might be a slicing artifact.   If you are using sli3r, try it in Skeinforge.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

It is a line of bumps. I did the same object with Skeinforge but do have the same problem.
Pringing slower or with 0.1mm doesnt change anything.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

breaker wrote:

It is a line of bumps. I did the same object with Skeinforge but do have the same problem.
Pringing slower or with 0.1mm doesnt change anything.

Perhaps a little more fine tuning on the Y belt?

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

I cant tune these belts any better:)

I did tune them 8 hours:)

If there are too tight backlash increases drastically. if there are too loose they jump and accuracy is horrible.

Is there a proper way of doing this? I did thighten the belts on both sides equally and did check the pulling force with two fingers by pressing the belt together.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

breaker wrote:

I cant tune these belts any better:)

I did tune them 8 hours:)

If there are too tight backlash increases drastically. if there are too loose they jump and accuracy is horrible.

Is there a proper way of doing this? I did thighten the belts on both sides equally and did check the pulling force with two fingers by pressing the belt together.

I hear you mentioning the two side belts, but have you done the Y belt in the back of the printer?

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

Yes did that one also.

Opened the four Screw on the back of the Servo, pushed the servo downwards and tigthend the screws.

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Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

breaker wrote:

Yes did that one also.

Opened the four Screw on the back of the Servo, pushed the servo downwards and tigthend the screws.


Breaker,

That's what made the most significant change for me.

25 (edited by breaker 2012-10-26 06:00:30)

Re: i need some advice for circles and sticking

@JustSomeGuyTN

Do you have any bumps or flats on your circles? Can you post the file you are printing successfull?

The bump i have is on the upper left and lower right corner, and adds about 0.2 mm to the outside diameter of the workpiece.

The circles are almost consistent before the bumps, like the drawing I attached last time.