Filabot vs. Filastruder (Page 1 of 2)

Side question; Is there any Filabots actually out in the Wild ? Its been 'coming real soon now' for over 18months - checking Kickstarter would seem to show they haven't even shipped out the rewards from the campaign that finished January 2012...

Their recycled filament also appears to comes from a single source for ABS: used Lego Blocks that are pre-ground.. it still seems a long long way off the 'throw any plastic in and make filament' since they have to pre-grind them:

Whilst recycling is an admirable goal - its frought with so many issues specific to the concept of recycling (uniform particle size, plastic type, colour, grade, type of grinder used, etc)  that I can whole-heartedly see why elmoret side stepped this element and went straight for extruding raw-pellets as is done in a 'proper' filament extrusion line...

Slight thread jacking:

Nope.. and there is weasel words that say its pretty much 'tough' until the Project Creator declares himself having no intention to fulfill the rewards.  The devil (as always) is in the details (or T&C's in this case). You agree to them by virtue of having an account to pledge from.

Firstly, Kickstarter have no 'role' in this transaction from a contractual level, besides being a facilitator. You enter into an 'agreement' essentially with the Project Creator. Consequently, there is no recourse against KS itself.

Then, you need to be aware, you aren't actually entering into a 'standard' commercial transaction (and its associated protections). You aren't actually 'buying' anything, so therefore technically theres no contract to gurantee fulfillment and thus no rights of recourse. Backing a project is essentially 'donating money to the cause' on the understanding that at some point you *should* receive your reward - but its very cleverly worded  such that you aren't 'buying' a good, so have none of those protections one might imagine.

So - back to the 'a project creator is not require to grant...' statement... This means, as long as the Project Creator is still working on getting to fulfillment 'in good faith', then theres no recourse for complaints. Expected delivery dates are just that - expected - but they are not binding. 

In the old days, prior to the change in their Project Creator T&C's, I could have put up a KS for a DIY Quantum Accelerator.. and as long as I'm still working towards that goal I can slip past my delivery dates for Decades... I'm still upholding the Terms & Conditions I entered into when I 'joined' KS to post that project.

Now should the Project Creator declare they have no intention to fulfill the project deliverables, at that point, they are now in breach of their Kickstart T&C's and you can proceed to reclaim your money - individually and directly (KS again play no role in this aspect of matters - beyond confirming that the Project Creator has now violated their agreement, and thus, some other legal protections can kick in...)

Long and short of it - You can pursue many avenues as an individual under Civil Statutes I'm sure.. but from a cut and dried Consumer Protection standpoint - there is none. You 'invested' in a Startup, and that Startup Failed... Thems the breaks basically... and why Venture Capitalists demand such high returns (due to the inherent risk that is carried...)

Legally, nope, because you didn't enter into a commercial agreement for delivery of a good. You pledged money to a startup.
Its no different from giving money to a Small Business as an Investment Loan, and then when the company fails, going back to the Credit Card company and asking for a refund... It wont be forthcoming. Credit Card companies aren't a form of Investment Insurance, which is essentially what you are seeking in this instance. (remember - you aren't buying goods on Kickstarter - You are investing in a startup... very very different things! Otherwise I could simply invest in 100's of companies with my Credit Card, and when I dont get a return that I like just complain to the credit card company )

This is why KS encourage you to investigate the Project Creator, and invest wisely. There is simply no gurantee of anything on Kickstarter.. its an investment engine and not a store front... and as you have no gurantee of supply, there is no fall back on 'failure to supply/failure to provide service' that is required in most instances for Credit Reversal...

Having said that, if you have a really good relationship with your Credit Provider, and the amount you want reversed is small, you *may* get them to do it for you - on the basis of good customer service from them to you, unrelated to their actual obligations legally...

Another filament maker is the Extrusion Bot.

Wait a minute, I just re-read the original post. You want to turn cans and glass into filament?

So any idea on how to make connections between recyclable plastics and pellets? I was going to organize volunteer events to pick up plastic cans and bottles in our community and turn them directly into filament. Now buying pellets adds additional cost to my project. Thanks!

In terms of recycling found plastics, that would be difficult. Its a simple case of crap in crap out. Reprap technology requires a great deal consistency. Most recycled plastic would be composed of slightly different types of plastic with different chemistry, melting point/viscosity, adhesion properties ... ect. This would make working with the recycled product difficult.

From what I know Tyler McNaney's design can produce filament and he has demonstrated this before. His problem is that a plastic shredder is more complicated and he has never shown the viability of that design. Added to that he started college and I think that a great deal of the money collected for the Filabot project was used to that end.

In terms of customer protection laws kickstarter is in a weird place. Kickstarter keeps claiming that they are not a store but they continue to allow people to make listing as if they were.  As a backer you are either a costumer or a investor.  As a costumer you have the right to the product as they advertised it. As a investor you have the right to transparency regarding their finances and if they spent a dime on anything other projects other than what they promised you have recourse against them.

Relevant on 3D printing recycled plastics:
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/ … atxml.html

Here is a listing of the USA Recycle symbols:
http://gettheworkdone.net/images/recycle/Symbols.swf

ABS falls in symbol 7 but all symbol 7's are not ABS.

Some containers show the symbol plus number and the plastic.

Ralph

Plastic is typically downcycled.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downcycling

Yeah, and to my knowledge he still hasn't shipped any of the Kickstarter units.

Looks like Filastruder is on pace to finish up the Kickstarter kits later this week, and launch the store next week. I've already bulk ordered necessary parts for the kits.

What about re-cycling all of the miscellaneous objects that one creates, especially when getting started. I have heard that 90% of everything one prints is essentially waste. The materials would be known could they be ground up and reused?

Ralph