1 (edited by Boz 2013-05-09 22:25:59)

Topic: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

I've been having issues with just about all of my 0.1 mm prints that have low infill (anything under 60% it seems).

It looks like because they have such hollow infill (this one had 30% with 6 perimeters) they do not do well with somewhat flat, yet slightly curving surfaces.  Is there some other way that I need to slice these types of objects to avoid these voids created by the holes in the infill?  Do I need to just print anything like this at 80%+ infill even though this is only a problem on the top of the model?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/wmfootball75/PhotoMay0195825PM.jpg

Also, I seem to be having an issue with parts curling up at the bottom very far into the print.  I've been using glass and hairspray as well as an enclosure for a while and it has worked quite well, but it seems like lately I've been having consecutive issues about parts (even very large but long parts) curling up at the bottom ends.  I've tried not to set my z-stop so low that the first layer smudges around everywhere, but I'm almost thinking that I don't have it low enough or need a brim for pretty much every part I want to print.  I realize that this is a very generic problem, but it's very annoying to wake up to a 12 hr print that's 9 hrs in and already curled. sad

I appreciate any advice, and I'm more than happen to answer any questions.  Thank you all for your time.

2

Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

I see the 6 perimeters working well... but how about the top and bottom layers setting if you up that setting to at least 5 the holes should disappear another thing that helps is make sure your bridging settings are working.

3

Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

I had the top layer setting at 6, and it shows on the area that I've boxed in red below.  The problem is that the other areas (in blue) are slightly sloped (as seen below) resulting in them getting only perimeters which are over the sparse 30% infill, causing the perimeter layer to collapse in certain areas.  You can see that the 6 green layers are fine and solid, so I guess I'm wondering if there is a way to set a threshold much like overhang is to support so that things that are sloped a certain way can have either 1) denser infill or 2) multiple solid layers below.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/wmfootball75/drawing.png

Another example of this is my octopus that I printed at 0.1 mm and around 30% infill.  His head caved in at the end of the print and caused what remained of his head to be spaghettied on top of him, leaving the top open.  I cleaned the mess off and left his open head, but it's clear to me that the infill caused this.  You can see that at the top of his head, it becomes less sloped (or has a smaller slope angle) and that seems to be the setting in which this issue occurs.

I suppose that for prints like this I will need to do at least around 80% infill to prevent this from happening.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/wmfootball75/My%20First%20Prints/549c4ce6-c2f6-4cd7-84e0-b0aa5b2d138d.jpg

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Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

are those areas in the star trek model. Infilled below as well under the slope? or just the walls. I have done slopes and chamfers all similar even up from 0-70degrees with no problems. 30% infill 3 maybe 4 top layers. (0 being vertical wall 70 degrees being almost flat horizontal.) all with no support.

But I have noticed your condition especially on my base layer now as I approached my spool end. so I think you shoul look at

check filament width and extrusion again
check speeds too could be to fast with too little coming out.

On the octopus. First thing jumps out is that head will never print with no support. and if you are using full solid infill (doesn't appear to be) your spacing is set too high.

Hope that helps

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

5 (edited by op7ical 2013-05-04 00:47:57)

Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

Boz, in your slicing profile, do you have it set to infill every 3 layers?  This is default in the Solidoodle 0.1mm profile.  If it is set this way, try changing it to infill on every layer.  This might give better support to the top-most layers.  Try the Trek insignia out again if this change is made.

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Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

I'm no expert, just learning myself, but the infill grid on your octopus doesn't look like 30% infill, at least that's not what I get. My grid on a 20% Infill is about 1.5mm squares. Maybe I'm not getting the scale right, but in relationship to the keyboard you grid looks much closer to what I get at 10% infill. Of course I've only printed at .3mm layers to date, but I wouldn't expect that to affect the infill grid.

TiM

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Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

I had the same issue that the OP had, and noticed that when doing the top layers Slic3r doesn't consider it a bridge and uses the perimeter speed settings. I'm not sure if it was just the specific model I was using, but it didn't change speed at all, so I lowered the perimeter speed and it helped bridge a lot of those gaps (granted they drooped, but it's getting covered up anyway), but it took longer for the prints obviously. I haven't experimented with different infill types so I can't help you there.

8 (edited by LordThrash 2013-05-08 17:54:25)

Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

Ohh yes I am having the same issue.  I had people tell me I need fan cooling (which may help a small amount)  There is a well documented thread on the slic3r github forum

github.com/alexrj/Slic3r/issues/864

The only solution I have seen so far is to increase infill  sad

Edit:
Further research shows this may be fixed in Slic3r 0.9.9-dev
github.com/alexrj/Slic3r/issues/970

I will grab it this week and see if I can get it to work.

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Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

you know that the 0.9.9 final is already out ?

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Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

ysb wrote:

you know that the 0.9.9 final is already out ?

Frontpage of slic3r.org says:

Slic3r 0.9.9 is out!

Many new features, including a new simple mode, raft and the ability to use multiple layer heights in the same print, and optimizations for printers with Bowden extruders. And, of course, LOTS more.

Read the full release notes

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Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

op7ical wrote:

Boz, in your slicing profile, do you have it set to infill every 3 layers?  This is default in the Solidoodle 0.1mm profile.  If it is set this way, try changing it to infill on every layer.  This might give better support to the top-most layers.  Try the Trek insignia out again if this change is made.

I actually had it set to every 3 layers, which I've now gone back and changed to your recommendation.  I appreciate it!  I will have to try the model again after I'm done printing some birthday presents for my brother.

mr_tim34 wrote:

I'm no expert, just learning myself, but the infill grid on your octopus doesn't look like 30% infill, at least that's not what I get. My grid on a 20% Infill is about 1.5mm squares. Maybe I'm not getting the scale right, but in relationship to the keyboard you grid looks much closer to what I get at 10% infill. Of course I've only printed at .3mm layers to date, but I wouldn't expect that to affect the infill grid.
TiM.

I think that this as well as op7ical's suggestion might have been what did the octopus in (he was my first 0.1 mm print as well).  Since then I've used around 50% infill and infill every 1 layer and have gotten fantastic results.

Thank you all for your very helpful suggestions.  I'm hoping to learn what I can and help anyone else who may need it in the future.

Here's the present I mentioned for my brother (don't tell him!) printed at 0.1 mm with 50% infill every 1 layer:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/wmfootball75/PhotoMay0781721PM.jpg

I might need to look at some calibration on flow rate.  I noticed that on the outside edges the extrusion lanes aren't quite touching enough to make a solid surface.

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Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

Nice!

He a Catan junkie?

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Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

He just got into it, but he's been playing quite a bit over the last few weeks (he's in college so he plays with his friends in their free time).  He showed me how to play a few days ago, and I really liked it.  I'm going to have to make myself a set sometime soon.  I'm starting now on the brick pieces and hoping to do 3 of them in one shot on my SD3.

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Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

I love the 3D Catan set on Thingiverse!  I printed out a whole set, and my wife added some really cool paint details to bring them to life.  We played a game with them and our friends loved it. 

If you have the Presto Cooker, I would recommend some light acetone smoothing.  It worked well for us.

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Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

I've been debating on whether or not to smooth them (I have a presto cooker and whatnot) or to use a different solvent that I used to use on 3D parts called Plastruct Bondene.

I've already used it on one of the "ore" pieces and it actually works much like acetone by softening the part enough to smooth it out while also making it glossy.  It's main use is to bond ABS parts much like superglue, but it has the consistency of acetone (it's really a great product for this use because it bonds similar to how wood glue does) I'm tempted to just do this for all of the parts because it allows for a more controlled application.  (Note: This chemical is still just as harmful as acetone and should be treated in much of the same manner regarding safety precautions)

I can try to take a picture comparing the untreated vs. treated tomorrow in the sunlight to show you what I mean.  I'm just afraid of nuking these 0.1 mm prints with acetone if I'm not careful!

16

Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

I'm just afraid of nuking these 0.1 mm prints with acetone if I'm not careful!

Haha, I know what you mean.  We overcooked a few of the pieces with warmer vapors and they tended to warp, but most of them were perfectly fine.  But I was totally new to the process at that time.

Since you are in a hurry to finish these parts, it might be better to go with your Plastruct solution at first.  But I do recommend taking a bit of time to develop a good Presto process for the future.  Once you have tested a few different parts and pin down the numbers (amount of acetone, time to cook, when to put it in) it is a very consistent and reliable approach.

17 (edited by Boz 2013-05-10 02:54:05)

Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

A comparison:

No finishing done:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/wmfootball75/PhotoMay0951729PM.jpg

Plastruct Bondene: (Light Coat)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/wmfootball75/PhotoMay0951716PM.jpg

Presto Finished:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/wmfootball75/PhotoMay0951738PM.jpg

All parts: (Left to Right: Plastruct, Presto, Unfinished)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/wmfootball75/PhotoMay0951752PM.jpg

The Plastruct seems like a happy medium between unfinished and presto finished.  It keeps details while still "melting" some features that might be undesirable (on this model that would be the flat parts that show lines more obviously)

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Re: Issues with 0.1 mm printing and Infill

Thanks for posting those images.  Is the Plastruct used the same way as the acetone?
Matt