1,226 (edited by ysb 2013-04-04 13:29:44)

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

hi tim.. i have a problem with the filastruder..

i start to print with my own filament with pellets from OSPRINTING... i will pass on multiple clogged extruder because of contamination(dont mix a wood working zone with an extruding work..) , but the filament seem to be a lot "softer" than an original one (mine comes from voxelfactory)

so i was obliged to reduce the speed a lot (i mean A LOT... more than 70% of my top speed...) if i do not want to grind the filament ...

any acceleration (like moving from perimeter speed to infill speed..) : grind..
any too much continual speed : grind

any resistance from the extruder : grind...

the filament size is around 1.7mm like my voxelfactory one... and i extrude it in the filastruder at 185/187 degC

i'm not near half the normal speed of my printer...

it's very.. very...(a lot) annoying...

is it a problem with the pellets (a bad batch ??? with subnormal melting performance) ? any advice to harden the filament ?

i use my genuine filament around 190/195 decC in my solidoodle.. and i even try to print at 200 degC to improve the speed with the "homemade" one... but no real gain..

1,227

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

ysb,

It really all depends on the model of the resin/pellets. There's a specification called "MFI", or melt flow index, and that number specifies how easily the plastic flows.

Assuming you got GP-22 resin from OSP, the MFI is 4.8g/10min @ 230C, 3.8kg load.

I've been using mostly Sabic MG94:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc … iSmc#gid=0

Which has a MFI of 12g/10min at the same test conditions - so 2.5 times easier flow.

I have done 150mm/sec infill with that plastic, and made this part:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1786359/Photo%20Apr%2001%2C%208%2019%2001%20PM.jpg

The lower the MFI, the less ooze the plastic will have. The higher the MFI, the faster you can print. It's a tradeoff.

You might also put a fan on the extruder shaft, this will keep the hobbed hub from heating up and softening the plastic at the hub.

1,228 (edited by ysb 2013-04-04 14:59:58)

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

mine ooze a lot even with a lower MFI than yours...

as OSP is Filastruder partner, i hope you have done extensive testing on their pellets no ? do you have any recommandation on speed on the solidoodle ?

if i understand well what you said (...Assuming you got GP-22 resin from OSP, the MFI is 4.8g/10min @ 230C, 3.8kg load.), i need to go above 200C on my solidoodle to print at normal speed ? (200C on solidoodle is already 230C in real life no ?...)

i fear to heat more than 200C on the solidoodle and burn my Peek extruder...

1,229

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

I'm not saying you need to go hotter, I'm saying we may need to source a different plastic in the future.

As a side note, I just started having the exact same symptoms as you, maybe you jinxed me! hopefully I can get to the bottom of this.

1,230

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

arfff... i have 20 lbs of pellets.... sooner than later, i advice to check this as if you put OSP pellets in your kickstarter award... you will get some "not so happy" return.....

1,231

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

ysb wrote:

arfff... i have 20 lbs of pellets.... sooner than later, i advice to check this as if you put OSP pellets in your kickstarter award... you will get some "not so happy" return.....

Well, I'm not confident it's the pellets fault. I've printed with pellets that have the same MFI, at about 80mm/sec, 200C.

You said you let wood get in the mix. Are you 100% sure the hot end/nozzle on your printer are clear of contamination/wood bits?

1,232 (edited by ysb 2013-04-04 16:22:34)

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

yep... before my last test i clean all my extruder then acetone bath to finish the cleaning of the nozzle and deep inspection.

i put the filastruder filament and i can't pass 20mm/s without grinding... it was like the filament can't be melt enough fast to be extruded at the right speed, and as it was less hard, the motor can't push/force it faster without grindind (i try to change the force of the bearing that push the filament without success... i even miss step...)

i remove the filastuder filament and right put a voxelfactory filament (without any cleaning) and i can print at 70mm/s without problem (my normal speed , i push it to 120% /84mm/s with RH slider ... zero grinding... and top print)..

1,233

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

Well, turns out I'm grinding the filament no matter whether it's Filastruder or "professional" filament, so there's another issue somewhere.

1,234 (edited by elmoret 2013-04-04 17:03:21)

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

Can other beta testers chime in with their experiences printing Filastruder filament? What pellets, how fast did you print, any issues?

I've pushed 10+ lbs through my solidoodle at 60-150mm/s, 190-210C, primarily the SABIC resin quoted earlier. I once had issues because my hotend wasn't fully tightened. Now I'm having issues with grinding, on professional and filastruder filaments alike.

1,235

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

ysb, did you have trouble with the pellets I included with your order? Or were those all used up in the woodworking contaminated batch?

1,236

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

While I do not know what grinding is I have had no issue with the filastruder filament. I did try to extrude the Pink resin beads and found some wormy contaminants on the outside of the filament. They pop when the come out of the nozzle. I have not tried to extrude them at different temperatures. I think they might be nylon or some other plastic that does not melt at the same temperature. Some virgin materials are not virgins. If they contain recycled plastic they are often referred to as co polymers.

1,237

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

supraflyer wrote:

While I do not know what grinding is I have had no issue with the filastruder filament. I did try to extrude the Pink resin beads and found some wormy contaminants on the outside of the filament. They pop when the come out of the nozzle. I have not tried to extrude them at different temperatures. I think they might be nylon or some other plastic that does not melt at the same temperature. Some virgin materials are not virgins. If they contain recycled plastic they are often referred to as co polymers.

Grinding is when the extruder wheel of the Solidoodle slips against the filament.

About how much Filastruder filament have you printed with?

1,238

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

I've often wondered if a spiked wheel would be a better solution to a knurled wheel on the stepper, but I don't see anyone using one so I'm guessing no.  It would be less surface contact but if you intentionally dug into the filament you'd have less ability to slip and hardly any issue with getting a glaze of filament shavings in your wheel as we do now from time to time.

1,239

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

elmoret wrote:

ysb, did you have trouble with the pellets I included with your order? Or were those all used up in the woodworking contaminated batch?


the problem is that i use your white pellet to do the first run to clean the extruder (the famous first 2 hours..;) ) .... i think it let me the grey one that you put also in my invoice.. i will try to extrude this pellets this week-end to see if i have the same problem

1,240

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

cmetzel wrote:

I've often wondered if a spiked wheel would be a better solution to a knurled wheel on the stepper, but I don't see anyone using one so I'm guessing no.  It would be less surface contact but if you intentionally dug into the filament you'd have less ability to slip and hardly any issue with getting a glaze of filament shavings in your wheel as we do now from time to time.


http://hydraraptor.blogspot.de/2009/04/ … ction.html

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Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

supraflyer wrote:

While I do not know what grinding is I have had no issue with the filastruder filament. I did try to extrude the Pink resin beads and found some wormy contaminants on the outside of the filament. They pop when the come out of the nozzle. I have not tried to extrude them at different temperatures. I think they might be nylon or some other plastic that does not melt at the same temperature. Some virgin materials are not virgins. If they contain recycled plastic they are often referred to as co polymers.

What is your source for the pellets that have worked well?

1,242

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

I had no trouble with the resin I got from you, or OSB printing. I think there are multiple reasons for grinding.
1) contaminant stuck in nozzle causing back pressure and loss of flow
2) chips/dust etc. in barrel causing loss of motion of filament
3) soft surface hardness on filament.
4) combinations of the above at the worst possible moment.
I would imagine from my 500+ hours of printing( 30 pounds of filament) I have had only 4 incidents of grinding. They mostly occur right before I have to take apart and clean my extruder.

1,243

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

would drying the filament possibly help in this situation?

1,244 (edited by elmoret 2013-04-04 22:27:40)

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

nickythegreek wrote:

would drying the filament possibly help in this situation?

Possibly. I've never had issues, so I've never explored drying. I know the pros do it - but they extrude a lot faster.

Btw, it seems my issues were a partially plugged nozzle, probably from getting careless and leaving the hotend at temperature too long. I cleaned it with a guitar string, seems fine now. I was having issues with pro filament as well as filastruder filament, and now I can print fine with both.

1,245 (edited by ysb 2013-04-04 22:53:35)

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

not a good news... i can't wait for this week-end so i made a couple of meters of the grey pellets that you put in my invoice... (i let the filastruder do a couple of meter that i put to the trash  before i decide it's a good one)

i don't know if it's OSprinting or another one... but i try to print an object... the first layer was very good... but as soon as the printer spped up (+10 mm/s) for the second layer.. : grind fest...

the test was made with the same speed than my 'pro' filament...

i put my pro filament, purge the extruder (this one was more difficult to clean... it seem that it don't like to be mixe with the other filament..) and all is back to normal...

... hmm
edit: ... mmmm seem i sufferedr a partial clog too... will clean all that shit an redo proper test

1,246

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

FYI, Tim, I finally got to the gray filament you sent (your "leavings" so to speak) and I seem to have some clogging issues.  Not sure if it's relevant, but I thought you should know.  The regular natural hasn't had a problem yet.

1,247

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

I have a question, please
When the filament starts to curl when starting out of the nozzle on my Solidoodle ,does that mean there is a partial clog?

1,248 (edited by elmoret 2013-04-04 23:28:54)

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

cckens wrote:

FYI, Tim, I finally got to the gray filament you sent (your "leavings" so to speak) and I seem to have some clogging issues.  Not sure if it's relevant, but I thought you should know.  The regular natural hasn't had a problem yet.

Yeah, I bet. That stuff nearly certainly had contaminants. It was "run at your own risk" for a reason!


EDIT: The MFI on the grey is less than half of the white. You will definitely have to slow down to use it - I usually print with it around 50mm/s

1,249

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

supraflyer wrote:

I have a question, please
When the filament starts to curl when starting out of the nozzle on my Solidoodle ,does that mean there is a partial clog?

In my experience, yes.

1,250

Re: Filament Extruder - Convert pellets to filament

cckens wrote:

FYI, Tim, I finally got to the gray filament you sent (your "leavings" so to speak) and I seem to have some clogging issues.  Not sure if it's relevant, but I thought you should know.  The regular natural hasn't had a problem yet.

I think I sent you some before the "free, use at your own risk" stuff. Did that (the stuff previous to the 3.5lb free pack) have any issues?