1

Topic: Odd printing artifact?

Trying to figure out what the cause of this is -

Monoprice Maker Ultimate + MicroSwiss hot end + Bond tech extruder + second cooling fan + insulation boot over the heater block + full enclosure.

Printing ABS

When I print other bigger parts, they come out very well.  These are on the small side.  The infill is set to 100% [but it never made a difference at 20% for these things, as there is nowhere big enough to get away from the wall thickness setting]

The long lines are 99% fine, but the short extrudes that should fill in the corner parts are weird / missing. 

The only thing that bugs me about the long narrow parts is that there is a gap between the inner and outer set of lines.  So far, I've tried a few different widths in the design, but the gap doen't change much.  Oddly, it is not all the way through the thickness either.

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Dave
3D printer - Monoprice Maker Ultimate with mods-
microswiss hot end, Bondtech extruder, twin cooling fans & ducts, insulated heater block, enclosed with Lexan like the Wanhao D6 it is based on.

2

Re: Odd printing artifact?

Set you infill overlap to around 12 or 13. That should take care of the area between the infill and walls.  As for the lack of filament in the small areas it could be there just is not room for what you are asking for in that area. You have to make sure there is enough space in that area for the line dimensions you have set up or it will be left empty.

The overlap setting might help with that to.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

3

Re: Odd printing artifact?

ok, to start with, IF things are properly calibrated, you should not ever 'need' to use infill overlap to correct an issue like this.
that setting is nothing more than a bandaid (and a poor one at that) for improper calibration.

next, depending on the slicer you are using (Slic3r is my preference), you should be able to adjust the extrusion width of the infill and/or perimeters to take care of filling in small areas more completely.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

4

Re: Odd printing artifact?

The infill overlap is at 15%

I'm thinking higher number = more plastic, right?

Dave
3D printer - Monoprice Maker Ultimate with mods-
microswiss hot end, Bondtech extruder, twin cooling fans & ducts, insulated heater block, enclosed with Lexan like the Wanhao D6 it is based on.

5

Re: Odd printing artifact?

What layer height are you running? .3mm, .2mm, .1mm? That can make a big difference. (One of my work-arounds for similar problems)

Also, try rotating your print in your design program, like 45 or 22.5 degrees. Will change the angle that the fills go in. (Just make sure to save that oddly rotated file under a different name)

Just brainstorming. I don't know why it's doing that to ya...  sad

Two SD3s - One with Sang, One with Printrboard, Fans on control boards!!! Do this!!!, Dual Glass Beds, Blacklight "EZ Bake Oven" - Improves Ambient Temp, Sketchup, Repetier, Slic3r. Graphic Designer & Makeshift Engineer. Drinks Lots and Lots and Lots of Rum.

6

Re: Odd printing artifact?

Dave455 wrote:

The infill overlap is at 15%

I'm thinking higher number = more plastic, right?

Not really more plastic, it just goes further into the perimeter wall. At 15% it is actually connecting into 15% of the perimeter wall. Hence the name overlap.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

7

Re: Odd printing artifact?

The layer thickness is .06mm.

I guess I need to find out how the slicer works as far as what it decides to drop vs include?  Is there some kind of gcode viewer that would read gcode and display clearly the extrudes?

Dave
3D printer - Monoprice Maker Ultimate with mods-
microswiss hot end, Bondtech extruder, twin cooling fans & ducts, insulated heater block, enclosed with Lexan like the Wanhao D6 it is based on.

8

Re: Odd printing artifact?

Dave455 wrote:

The layer thickness is .06mm.

I guess I need to find out how the slicer works as far as what it decides to drop vs include?  Is there some kind of gcode viewer that would read gcode and display clearly the extrudes?

This would be where you need to learn code. Sadly there is no program that will translate it to human terms.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

9

Re: Odd printing artifact?

Dave455 wrote:

The layer thickness is .06mm.

I guess I need to find out how the slicer works as far as what it decides to drop vs include?  Is there some kind of gcode viewer that would read gcode and display clearly the extrudes?

I think most slicers will allow you to view layer by layer after slicing is complete, if that's what you mean. You can preview the extrusion paths and moves.

10

Re: Odd printing artifact?

I found this site - http://gcode.ws/

Shows the tool path, etc.  The gaps seem to be in places where there isn't space for a full path.  In that if it added another pass, it would be overstuffed so to speak.

Dave
3D printer - Monoprice Maker Ultimate with mods-
microswiss hot end, Bondtech extruder, twin cooling fans & ducts, insulated heater block, enclosed with Lexan like the Wanhao D6 it is based on.

11 (edited by carl_m1968 2019-03-14 18:08:40)

Re: Odd printing artifact?

Dave455 wrote:

I found this site - http://gcode.ws/

Shows the tool path, etc.  The gaps seem to be in places where there isn't space for a full path.  In that if it added another pass, it would be overstuffed so to speak.


Well do keep in mind that when you design for printing walls are composed of perimeters. So the width of your wall has to divide evenly by the thickness of your perimeter which is .48 with a .4 nozzle.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

12

Re: Odd printing artifact?

I had wondered about that - the shell thickness vs overall part dimensions, etc.

Shell is set to 2mm = .07874"
Nozzle 0.4mm = .01575"

Width of the thinner part = .0975"

The slicer is laying down 6 lines to make this thin part, and there seems to be a slightly bigger space between the center 2 lines - which is one of the gaps where I really don't want one.

6 lines is .0945" wide. [6x Nozzle]   Part is .0975" wide.    Leaving .003" difference.

Should I make the part .003" narrower?  If I drop it to .005" narrower will it remove a line, and make the gap bigger?   I may have to experiment?

Dave
3D printer - Monoprice Maker Ultimate with mods-
microswiss hot end, Bondtech extruder, twin cooling fans & ducts, insulated heater block, enclosed with Lexan like the Wanhao D6 it is based on.

13

Re: Odd printing artifact?

Dave455 wrote:

I had wondered about that - the shell thickness vs overall part dimensions, etc.

Shell is set to 2mm = .07874"
Nozzle 0.4mm = .01575"

Width of the thinner part = .0975"

The slicer is laying down 6 lines to make this thin part, and there seems to be a slightly bigger space between the center 2 lines - which is one of the gaps where I really don't want one.

6 lines is .0945" wide. [6x Nozzle]   Part is .0975" wide.    Leaving .003" difference.

Should I make the part .003" narrower?  If I drop it to .005" narrower will it remove a line, and make the gap bigger?   I may have to experiment?


To make it easier on yourself, I would not convert to inches unless you just have to. Leave everything in metric since the printers and the gcode where built around the metric system. It just makes sizing things much easier. You also have to keep in mid that there is not imperial equivalent for every metric measurement so some material is lost or gained through conversion.

I tell my customers my system is based on the metric system so if then need something printed and are supplying the design then they need to have done all the conversion to metric if the design was originally in inches. It just makes the math easier and things like perimeter versus wall thickness are easier to figure out.

If possible I would make your wall thickness 2.4mm that divides evenly with .48. You could also change your nozzle to a different size if the math works better that way as well. If your heat block supports discreet nozzles.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

14

Re: Odd printing artifact?

Where does the .48 come from?

Dave
3D printer - Monoprice Maker Ultimate with mods-
microswiss hot end, Bondtech extruder, twin cooling fans & ducts, insulated heater block, enclosed with Lexan like the Wanhao D6 it is based on.

15 (edited by carl_m1968 2019-03-14 23:46:10)

Re: Odd printing artifact?

The .48 is the correct wall thickness for a .4 nozzle it is the standard thickness created by the slicer such as Simplify3D unless you select different or override it.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

16

Re: Odd printing artifact?

general rule of thumb is 120% of nozzle diameter.
for a 0.4 nozzle that is 0.48.

depending on what you are using for a slicer, you can, or should be able to, make adjustments in your extrusion widths for various parts of the print to get better results in small areas - BUT - this is assuming you have your E steps/mm properly calibrated, and your filament properly calibrated.

if you do not have things properly calibrated, that is where you should start.

over or under extrusion are the 2 most common issues with prints.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

17

Re: Odd printing artifact?

I adjusted the part dimensions, and the split between the shell layers went away.  I have printed many of these parts, and the odd gappy kind of looks like under extruding only started happening recently.  Possibly when I put a new roll of filament on the machine.  Odd, it's the same color, same vendor, Monoprice black ABS.  Although, the spool changed - the originals were wider, and didn't fit on the holder, so one of the first parts I printed was an extension..

I adjusted the filament flow setting up a little - now the rafts look a little over extruded, parts still about the same.  I just started a run with slower printing speed settings - Reduced them from default by about 20-25%

Dave
3D printer - Monoprice Maker Ultimate with mods-
microswiss hot end, Bondtech extruder, twin cooling fans & ducts, insulated heater block, enclosed with Lexan like the Wanhao D6 it is based on.

18

Re: Odd printing artifact?

Dave455 wrote:

I adjusted the part dimensions, and the split between the shell layers went away.  I have printed many of these parts, and the odd gappy kind of looks like under extruding only started happening recently.  Possibly when I put a new roll of filament on the machine.  Odd, it's the same color, same vendor, Monoprice black ABS.  Although, the spool changed - the originals were wider, and didn't fit on the holder, so one of the first parts I printed was an extension..

I adjusted the filament flow setting up a little - now the rafts look a little over extruded, parts still about the same.  I just started a run with slower printing speed settings - Reduced them from default by about 20-25%

It has been mentioned many times, in many discussions.. no 2 spools of filament will be the same - EVER - not even the same brand & color.

You "should" be doing proper filament calibrations for every new spool to get the flow correct, instead of just playing with the numbers randomly, hoping for better results. There are actual calibration steps & easy formulas to get it right, first time, every time.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

19

Re: Odd printing artifact?

Checked the E steps, and measured the length VS commanded length.  E steps was 415, corrected to 417 to get exactly to 10mm for 10mm.  Made no significant difference in the print quality.

Dave
3D printer - Monoprice Maker Ultimate with mods-
microswiss hot end, Bondtech extruder, twin cooling fans & ducts, insulated heater block, enclosed with Lexan like the Wanhao D6 it is based on.

20

Re: Odd printing artifact?

Dave455 wrote:

Checked the E steps, and measured the length VS commanded length.  E steps was 415, corrected to 417 to get exactly to 10mm for 10mm.  Made no significant difference in the print quality.

E-steps/mm and filament calibration are two completely different animals.

when calibrating E-steps you should be going for 100mm, NOT 10. there is no print in the world that is only going to consume a measly 10mms
the longer calibration will give you MUCH better results in the long run.

Filament Calibration - as mentioned - is something completely different.
you should be checking the diameter of the filament over 10-15ft and taking an average of multiple readings (one reading every 12-16 inches for roughly 9-12 readings)

enter that average into your slicing software for the filament diameter.

with the extrusion multiplier at 1, print a SINGLE wall/perimeter/shell cube and measure that wall thickness - measure each of the 4 walls and average that.
you are shooting for that 0.48mm thickness

if the wall average is thicker than 0.48 then you need to reduce the multiplier, if it is thinner, increase it.

There is a formula for calculating what that number should be...
     desired measurement / actual measurement = extrusion multiplier

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

21

Re: Odd printing artifact?

Ok, I seem to have confused a couple of things.

The setup I used to measure the length of filament was to clamp a machinist's scale to the frame, with the filament running parallel to it's edge.  In a straight line down to the extruder, so no bending to throw errors into the measurement.  A small tape flag stuck on the filament.  I could read a distance error in the .010-.020" range.  Much better than trying to use a tape measure or some other hand held method.  I understand that running 100mm would divide the error another 10x. 

The filament measures .067" to .0675"  Mostly .067".
1.75mm-.06889"  so it is slightly under.

In the IIIP Cura, there is a Filament  section, with a setting for diameter [set for 1.75], and another for flow, in %, set for 100%.

I wasn't sure if you meant to print 1 shell thickness or 1 nozzle width? - Anyway, I made a model and printed it to use as a dimension test - 

I ran a print of the part in the picture -
1.00" x 1.00"  x .094488 wall thickness x .200 high.
The corners are radiused so the wall thickness is the same all the way around.

It measures 1.00" x 1.00" x .095" wall  x .204" high.

2.4mm [=.094488] is the shell thickness setting in Cura.   The Layer height is .06mm

There are no gaps or weird places in this part, like there are in the others that have very short extrude & travel movements.

The sides look really good - in fact, the little weird "marks" near the corner look a lot worse in the picture than they are.  The other sides are clean.

I also ran some other parts in between posts, and they came out as well as any others of them I have made, if not better.  But they don't have those little short extrude and move areas.  Those seem to be where this printer is having trouble.

Could the retraction distance being too long cause trouble there?

Dave
3D printer - Monoprice Maker Ultimate with mods-
microswiss hot end, Bondtech extruder, twin cooling fans & ducts, insulated heater block, enclosed with Lexan like the Wanhao D6 it is based on.

22

Re: Odd printing artifact?

no, 1 wall thickness would be one "nozzle" width, as you put it.
I dont use Cura, so can not tell you how to set it up correctly, but in Slic3r, I use a standard 20x20x20 cube, with print settings set up to give the desired results.. 1 perimeter (shell, nozzle width, whatever you want to call it - it needs to be ONE! not a multiple of), no fill, 1-2 bottom layers and no top

the thing is, you do NOT want a "modeled" thickness.. you want to know what the printer thinks is the correct width to be laying down.

layer height really has nothing to do with this particular calibration but a larger layer would give you more accurate readings of the actual extrusion width.

for your filament, you should take an average reading, and use that number in the diameter setting.. not the "standard" 1.75...
if it averages 1.67, than that is what should be used.




I guess I am going to have to learn Cura so I can help people with this properly... roll

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

23

Re: Odd printing artifact?

in cura you set the shell thickness in mm   so I would assume you would plug in the .48 mm in the structure section

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

24

Re: Odd printing artifact?

Tin Falcon wrote:

in cura you set the shell thickness in mm   so I would assume you would plug in the .48 mm in the structure section

if that is how it is done, then yes.

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

25

Re: Odd printing artifact?

that is the setting in the rh embedder version at least.

can not say I am a cura expert but have used it a number of times when it seems sliC3er will not work for whatever reason

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura