1 (edited by Telemachus 2016-02-07 06:16:27)

Topic: Y shift 9 hours in!!

I got pretty confident with how things were running, so I tried the largest print I have done yet on my month old Da Vinci 1.0a, Repetier FW 0.92 running on Octoprint server on Raspberry Pi B+


130 x 84 x 135, 10% infill, 13 hour print.

About 8 hours in, I had a massive shift in the y axis toward the front of the printer.  From that point up it seems to be fine.

Frustrating to say the least.

Luckily, I think I will be able to take a scalpel and de-laminate the entire layer and reattach it.

But what a slap in the face after 9 hours of beautiful print.


I checked the bed to make sure it is not loose.  I checked the filament to make sure it wasn't caught up.  The stepper motors didn't seem too hot.

Is this just an occasional plague with longer prints?

Da Vinci 1.0a.  Repetier 0.92.  E3D V6.  Titan Extruder.  Sllic3r.  Octoprint on Raspberry Pi B+.

2

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

Telemachus wrote:

I got pretty confident with how things were running, so I tried the largest print I have done yet on my month old Da Vinci 1.0a, Repetier FW 0.92 running on Octoprint server on Raspberry Pi B+


130 x 84 x 135, 10% infill, 13 hour print.

About 8 hours in, I had a massive shift in the y axis toward the front of the printer.  From that point up it seems to be fine.

Frustrating to say the least.

Luckily, I think I will be able to take a scalpel and de-laminate the entire layer and reattach it.

But what a slap in the face after 9 hours of beautiful print.


I checked the bed to make sure it is not loose.  I checked the filament to make sure it wasn't caught up.  The stepper motors didn't seem too hot.

Is this just an occasional plague with longer prints?


Could be a driver that got too hot. Or a glitched opto sensor..

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

3

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

Check belt tension, mine used to do this right out of the box.

4 (edited by piercedtiger 2016-02-07 15:40:54)

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

Mine did that on the X axis. No idea why. It did it on a 1 job with several pieces on the table. Seemed fine after that. However, I did tighten the X axis some time after when I left the top open and saw how much the drive belt flexed!

I think my problem started during a long print and my wife killed power when she saw the mangled mess on the table. Took me some time to reset the home coordinates and level the table. Seemed like something threw all of those off as the extruder was so close to the table that filament couldn't come out and it just clicked, and it would print the outer ring single pass off the table on the dump bin side. Small objects were ok, just off-center. After I reset home it's been going well.

5

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

Could be a driver that got too hot. Or a glitched opto sensor..

Fan needed on main control board?

Da Vinci 1.0a.  Repetier 0.92.  E3D V6.  Titan Extruder.  Sllic3r.  Octoprint on Raspberry Pi B+.

6 (edited by Telemachus 2016-03-24 08:06:23)

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

Massive y shift just ruined a print of mine.  I was able to go back to the timelapse shots and find the frame where it jumped: http://soliforum.com/i/?CBZX5Bk.jpg

and then in short time, this: http://soliforum.com/i/?RtkCD2C.jpg

I have played with the optosensor wires, they seem fine.

Belt tension appears ok, but I guess it can't hurt to tighten it a little.

Simply Maddening!

Da Vinci 1.0a.  Repetier 0.92.  E3D V6.  Titan Extruder.  Sllic3r.  Octoprint on Raspberry Pi B+.

7 (edited by Telemachus 2016-03-24 14:39:22)

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

I re sliced and sent the file to octoprint server.  It shifted in the same spot but this time on the x axis.http://soliforum.com/i/?kkFpzFs.jpg

I made sure my octoprint software is up-to-date, and reset the Raspberry Pi. I reset the tension on the belts on the X & Y axis, as well as the belt going to the stepper motor for the y axis.

These were running at night, so the control board should not be any more hot than the ones that run during the day. I'm open to any ideas

Da Vinci 1.0a.  Repetier 0.92.  E3D V6.  Titan Extruder.  Sllic3r.  Octoprint on Raspberry Pi B+.

8 (edited by Telemachus 2016-03-24 22:22:15)

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

I tried it again after tightening the belts and lubing the rods.  Again got a shift in the y axis at the same level.

Since it is always at about the same time frame, i figured maybe the the drivers were heating up.  So I stuck a fan next to the control board and left the panel open. 

No luck, fan right on the control board.  Shift in the X axis at the same exact spot as the last 3!!

It is always in about the same spot, but the shifts are in either the X or the Y axis.

http://soliforum.com/i/?OtPD76g.png

The bed isn't moving.  The wires all seem in tact... plus, if it is a wire problem, would it keep happening at the same spot??

I haven't checked the heat of the stepper motors yet, maybe that's the culprit?

Da Vinci 1.0a.  Repetier 0.92.  E3D V6.  Titan Extruder.  Sllic3r.  Octoprint on Raspberry Pi B+.

9 (edited by FireBookDuo 2016-03-25 19:03:45)

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

I ran into the exact same problem with a X-shift mid printing at the same point the three times I tried it. Since it was happening in the same spot each time, I thought it had to anything other than the wires.

Long story short, it really was the wires to the X-stepper that had gone bad.

I replaced all the wires for the x-stepper and the x-endstop with some higher quality cabling, and changed the routing to something more like this: http://www.soliforum.com/post/119801/#p119801

500 hours of printing later and not a single x-shift has happened.

10

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

How did you determine it was the wires?

I finally got it printing right by turning the speed down...

Da Vinci 1.0a.  Repetier 0.92.  E3D V6.  Titan Extruder.  Sllic3r.  Octoprint on Raspberry Pi B+.

11 (edited by Hecot 2016-03-26 19:28:56)

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

I ran into the same problems when changing from stock firmware to repetier 0.92!

The point is that the recommend speed settings that can be found in some forums are way too high! The natural behavior of a stepper motor that it has an upper speed limit where the torque is decreasing massivly and finally stopping the motor to increase in speed. If you run a stepper motor above this point it will simply skip a few steps as it can not follow the speed. This skipping of steps leads to an error in position between the machine and the software! This can happen to all axis and is a different failure than the one with endstop sensor (BTW - thanks for refering to my post)!

When I had this trouble I did some reverse engineering on the stock firmware/software to see what XYZ is choosing for the speeds. I assume that they know their machine well and did intensive testing for ideal speed settings.

The speed settings from the XYZ stock firmware/software with quality setting "good" are:

    Perimeters:     15 mm/sec
    Infill:               30 mm/sec
    Support:          45 mm/sec
    Travel:            45 mm/sec
    Retract:           30 mm/sec

I know that these settings seam to be quite lame compared to other machines - but that's what the stock firmware/software is using. You may can go 10% above but if your speed settings are 50% above these settings the trouble is for sure! If you want a faster print I would suggest to do a hotend mod http://www.soliforum.com/topic/14386/mo … avinci-10/ and change to a bigger nozzle diameter - I would not recommended increasing the stepper motor speed with this machine!

12 (edited by FireBookDuo 2016-03-27 04:30:53)

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

Telemachus wrote:

How did you determine it was the wires?

I finally got it printing right by turning the speed down...

I used a scope to check the continuity as I moved the wires. There were occasional drop outs, most less that 5ms, but some as long as 50ms.

By turing down the speed, you are probably reducing the stress. After I redid the wiring, I was able to push the movement speeds to 250mm/sec and printing at 100mm/s (but I run 40 to 60mm/s for better quality)

I've completed 30 hour prints at those speeds without skipping.

Edit: I'm running a bowden fed E3D v6 at those speeds, I wouldn't recommend going that fast with the direct feed or the stock hot-end.

13 (edited by Telemachus 2016-03-28 19:18:41)

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

My son sold name plaque pencil holders at a mock market day at school.  Each name plaque was taking 5 hours, so I really pushed the speed settings and we could bust out 3 in 12 hours with minimal quality difference.

After a week non stop, they started shifting.

I don't think it's the wires, I think I just simply pooped out the stepper motors.

Went back to my slower settings and have had no problem since.

Da Vinci 1.0a.  Repetier 0.92.  E3D V6.  Titan Extruder.  Sllic3r.  Octoprint on Raspberry Pi B+.

14

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

mine did this same thing. after about 9 different times of the one line jump or skip im not sure what was happening but it finally went out completely. i am now trying to replace the front top stepper motor but it is only 38mm long. so i can't find a exact match. so a guy here showed me one to buy and i did but im afraid to install it due to the wiring harness has the red in a different place. will that matter? im asking because it sounds like you know everything there is to know about these machines.

Telemachus wrote:

I got pretty confident with how things were running, so I tried the largest print I have done yet on my month old Da Vinci 1.0a, Repetier FW 0.92 running on Octoprint server on Raspberry Pi B+


130 x 84 x 135, 10% infill, 13 hour print.

About 8 hours in, I had a massive shift in the y axis toward the front of the printer.  From that point up it seems to be fine.

Frustrating to say the least.

Luckily, I think I will be able to take a scalpel and de-laminate the entire layer and reattach it.

But what a slap in the face after 9 hours of beautiful print.


I checked the bed to make sure it is not loose.  I checked the filament to make sure it wasn't caught up.  The stepper motors didn't seem too hot.

Is this just an occasional plague with longer prints?

15

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

Yes it can mater. What you need to do is identify the pairs and connect them correctly according to the pairs. if you done you motors wont spin but will do the hokey pokey.

The colors of the wires don't mater but wiring the correct pairs together does.

With the Davinci stepper motor pin 1 and 3 are winding A and pin 4 and 6 are winding B.
so use a ohm meter to find your pairs.

If you don't have a ohm meter you can find the pairs by spinning the motor. first spin it with none of the wires connected. get a feel for the resistance. now pair one set and only one set  of the wires and spin the motor. if there is more resistant you have found a winding pair the other 2 will be your 2nd pair (assuming you using a 4 wire stepper motor)

one you have found your pairs you need to wire it up and so winding a (chose one) is connected to pin 1 and 3 and winding b is connected to 4 and 6.

If you get it backwards it will spin the wrong way. Not a big deal just swap the pins or change it in firmware.

16 (edited by Telemachus 2016-05-24 18:42:07)

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

Its 3 months now since I first documented my shifting woes.  Given I have 1200 hours of printing on this machine now, it is still SO frustrating to have 1-1/10 prints ruined by shifting in either the x or y axis.

I printed something all night long, just to have it shift in the x-direction with 18 minutes left, and now there are just strings everywhere.

I just wish I could make some sense of it.

I'd be happy to change out ALL of the wires, but the shifts are sometimes in the Y direction.

Da Vinci 1.0a.  Repetier 0.92.  E3D V6.  Titan Extruder.  Sllic3r.  Octoprint on Raspberry Pi B+.

17

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

In my case it was not the wires itself - it was the JST connector. The connection is not very reliable especially when you have vibration. This mechanical stress is much higher on the x-axis than on the y-axis. But there is a chance that due to vibration of the complete machine also your y-axis connector be affected. I suggest to remove the connector and directly solder the wires to the sensor PCB for x AND y-axis!

18 (edited by Telemachus 2016-06-11 19:18:01)

Re: Y shift 9 hours in!!

My x-axis doesn't  zero sometime now...  it just moves to the left in little increments until I fiddle with the wires.

So theres obviously something wrong there.  Once I get the print started, it doesn't seem to affect it however.

Checking with a continuity meter, I realized that one of the three red wires going to the x-axis end-stop was no longer in continuity with the motherboard. I cut out that section and soldered on a new wire. Now the x-axis homes just fine.

Da Vinci 1.0a.  Repetier 0.92.  E3D V6.  Titan Extruder.  Sllic3r.  Octoprint on Raspberry Pi B+.