1

Topic: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

I'm losing my mind trying to fix this problem. E3D Lite hot end, Hob Goblin gear, correct extruder mount and accessories for both.

Filament keeps forcing its way out between PTFE tube and extruder gear. See pic.

PTFE tube extends all the way up to the gea and idler bearing. I replaced the PTFE, same problem. In fact, I cut the upper end of the tube in an inverted V shape to just barely clear the gear and bearing, almost no daylight between them.

I changed from ABS to PETG, same prob. I ran the heat all the way up to 245, thinking I was forcing filament faster than it could melt it, same prob.

I slowed extruder speed all the way down to 50%, still does it!

I can extrude about 30-50 mm of filament before it starts spilling so apparently the nozzle is not clogged, but I even swapped nozzles. http://soliforum.com/i/?Gn2sJFm.jpg

HALP!

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

2

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

So when this problem occurs does the filament still exit the extruder? Or does the filament stop exiting through the nozzle and the above happens?

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http://www.3dexfilament.co.uk

3 (edited by Heartlander 2016-01-18 22:08:53)

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

It stops coming out of the extruder. That is ti say,  the filament stops squirting through the nozze.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

4 (edited by carl_m1968 2016-01-18 22:15:37)

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

Well I see the idler arm is cracked at the fulcrum point which means you have too much pressure being put on the filament. The next issue looks like your tube is not being installed correctly and internal pressure is pushing it up to the point where the hop gear grabs it bends it sideways which is when the filament also starts coming out.

The idler should be adjusted to where it puts just enough pressure. The Hob goblin should not need near the force applied by the idler that other gears need to bite the filament.

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5

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

It seems to me that all these problems are related to the smaller diameter of the hobgoblin gear.  If you want to use that setup, your best bet is make a new extruder/hot end holder that is shifted to allow the center of the hot end to be in line with the hobgoblin center groove. 

What you currently have was designed for the original gobbed gear, and now you that have a smaller diameter gear, you're forcing the pressure idler bearing to push the filament in toward the gear, and expect it to come back straight before it enters the hot end.  That's asking for nothing but problems.

Someone should re-design the extruder parts to accommodate the smaller hear.

I had the same problem on my design, but I modified it to shift everything left to align the gear and extruder.  I have since gone back to the original gear though.

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6

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

I would also like to see a picture of the space between the nozzle and heat block.  Also a picture of the space between the top of the heat block and the cooling fins.

Note: You mention that you ran the temp all the way up to 245.  That is not really that hot for and E3d or the filament that you are running.  Try running it up to 280 and let it sit for a minute.  Then try pushing filament through by hand to see if it will push through.  If it pushes easily then bring the temp down to normal (About 245 for ABS) and see if it will still push through.

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7

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

Pirvan, WardJr made a hobgoblin mount to compensate for the offset, which I have. There is no real offset now.

I pulled the nozzle, have torched out both nozzles and am soaking them in acetone. It seems to me that it has to be a clog. The barrel is clean a a whistle.

Stay tuned,amigos.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

8

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

Cleared the nozzle, put in new ptfe tubing, cut it to just barely clear the extruder drive gear and idler bearing... set extruder to 245, extruder speed to 100%, extruded 100mm okay.

Ran a a little print job, filament spilled again.

I'm seriously about ready to toss this thing in the holler. All I can think of now is to have a print hub make me a piece that completely encapsulates the gap between the drive gear and the top of the barrel.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

9

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

What do you have the E: steps/mm set at in EEPROM?  Is it possible that it is trying to extrude insanely fast due to a typo?

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Thanks to all for your contributions

10

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

+1 to wardjr Speed can definitely be an issue.
However, I would like to point to the tooth gouges in the filament. The Hobb Goblin obviously has very sharp teeth. It is designed this way to pull very rigid material, so ABS gets deeper indentations than say polycarbonate.

You need to loosen your tension arm a bit no matter what mount you are printing with. The gouges are catching on the PTFE (this will happen no matter the tube length) and snagging. The mdroman mount is not aligned properly for the Goblin, but even with the wardjr revision, the filament will snag on the liner pushed all the wall to the gear if the filament has significant ridges for it.

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11

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

I print with the mdroman mount and goblin, but I observe said statements on tension and speed/E calibration. Even after cutting the PTFE 3mm from the hotend, I get reliable feed so long as the tension isn't too extreme.

Sorry for not editing my post....on my phone right now.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
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12 (edited by jagowilson 2016-01-19 18:58:01)

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

Edit: I can't read. That doesn't look like the right hotend mount to me though to be honest.

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Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

Just to make sure your nozzle is clear i suggest:

Heat up the nozzle to a normal operating temperature. Take the filament out of the top of the extruder and then push a thin piece of wire through the bottom of the nozzle (so it goes through backwards) and draw it out of the top. You may want to use pliers. This is likely to clear any clog. I think in the manufacturing sometimes there can be burrs of metal in the inside of the nozzle that acetone won't clear. This method has worked for me.

3Dex - Suppliers of the best filament.
http://www.3dexfilament.co.uk

14 (edited by jagowilson 2016-01-19 18:59:58)

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

You can also heat it up to 280 (go slow so you don't overshoot) and let it sit for a couple of minutes. Then extrude while cooling down to 245.

15

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

Azerate, I did lighten up the tension as per your first suggestion. I will check my Extruder speed. I do keep coming back to it's either feeding too fat or there is an obstruction or the temp isn't high enough to keep the filament liquified. I'm pretty sure the nozzles are clear, I had them glowing red with the torch for a half minute or so. One nozzle was from the stock hot end and the other from the E3D. I prob need to order four or five more from Tim for quick change out.

I'll let you know how I make out/ Thanks, guys.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

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Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

Regardless of whether the nozzle is clear or welded shut, the filament shouldn't be able to squirt out (aside from maybe Ninjaflex). I would expect the filament path and drive gear (Hobb-goblin) to be able to hold all the way up to the stepper motor skipping steps.

I would focus my efforts on ensuring the filament path is straight and aligned, and that the idler bearing touches the filament at the 3 o'clock position of the hobbgoblin, not the 2 o'clock or 4 o'clock positions. If the bearing is not aligned properly, it will cause the filament to squirt out as the force vector is not vertical.

If memory serves, the Hobb-goblin needs a different idler bearing, idler arm, and mount as compared to the original SD drive gear.

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Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

The torque of the stock motor with the hobb goblin is strong enough to collapse the filament instead of skipping. I've had this same problem printing too fast with PETG.

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Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

wardjr wrote:

What do you have the E: steps/mm set at in EEPROM?  Is it possible that it is trying to extrude insanely fast due to a typo?

You have all the experts (No kidding, these guys are the best and brightest) trying to help you. 
The helpful thing (to others reading this) would be to answer this question or ask if you don't know what I am asking for.

It would be the highlighted number in this screenshot.  You should know what it is as it would have been something you changed to upgrade to the Hobb Goblin.
Your number will be much lower than mine and it would be helpful (to those of us helping) if you try and provide direct answers to the questions being asked.
 
http://i.imgur.com/gRUgqPL.png

We are all here to help and understand how frustrating problems like these can be.
Perfect alignment of all the components is essential to ensure the filament isn't getting an opportunity to flex out of the way.

Just a random though:  Is it possible that what you think is ABS Filament could be PLA or something else?

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Thanks to all for your contributions

19 (edited by Heartlander 2016-01-20 00:09:06)

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

Bob, it's not ABS, it is PETG.  I am still getting familiar with Simplify3D but I don't think it refers to extruder speed as steps per mm. It does show MM per Min, which s at 240. See attached.

Elmoret, I didn't know that about the 3 0'clock thing, but it makes perfect sense - I ckecked it is at 3:00. I think the feed path is as straight as it can be. I'd not heard that  different idler bearing was called for.

http://soliforum.com/i/?VQwi3x5.jpg

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

20

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

That screenshot is of the jog speed, which is the speed that material is extruded when clicking the Extrude button on that screen. You need the steps/mm of the extruder axis, which is in the firmware settings. You can get those quickly by sending a M501 in the Communication tab.

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Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

151?

http://soliforum.com/i/?mASeihA.jpg

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

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Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

151 steps/mm should be in the ballpark. Have you confirmed by measuring 100mm of filament above the stepper, extruding 100mm, and checking how much was pulled in?

23

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

It spills before I get that far.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

24

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

Maybe I can remove the nozzle and measure the filament feed distance.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

25

Re: Filament Spill Number 354, please help.

I removed the nozzle and it extruded 93.5MM when I asked for 100. But, it did not spill.Tht indicates a nozze problem. The extruded filament was still about .175 BUT it was warm enough to tough but not hot enough to burn me! I measured the temp ON the heater block with my digital meat thermometer and it indicated a temp of 25 cooler than the indicated temp. So, I increased the extruder to temp to 265 (or 240 by the meat thermometer).

I have now extruded 500 mm with the nozzle on and NO filament spills!

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10