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Topic: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

It has been a year since I used this SD3 due to a bent extruder. I just put a new ED6 Lite extruder and Goblin gear with Mk5 Extruder Mount.

I have the machine powered up, fan and lights are on. I plugged usb into my laptop, Connected Repetier to it (I assume it connected okay). I can Home the XY and Z but can't manually step them. Also neither the extruder or bed is heating. All wiing looks good, no empty plugs I can see.

What have I done wrong?

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

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Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

I've also shut down and restarted the printer.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

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Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

Could be a bung thermistor - if maxtemp or mintemp is triggered, you'll be unable to heat anything.

Fan and lights mean you have power, but these are not controlled by the board.

Anything showing up on the temperature graph?
When you connect the printer, look at the terminal window and check for any errors.

Did you update the firmware at all? If not, we can assume it's not a configuration error! smile

Homing will work most of the time - not sure of the behaviour with a temperature error, but check the endstop status (M119) and reported position (M114) to make sure these are working/make sense (in Marlin, if the axis doesn't think it's homed, it will not allow you to move away from the endstop).

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

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Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

My money's on either a thermistor damaged during installation, or bad thermistor wiring.

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Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

I'll pull the thermistor and resolder it. Is there a way to test the thermistor?

Grob, I did not update the firmware.

Here is one more thing: the Mk5 extruder I had printed would not accept the Ed6 Lite extruder, it didn't fit. All three of my spare extruder blocks would not fit either.

So I removed the (bent) heat break tube from my prior Ed6 (original version) and simply screwed the new Ed6 Lite thermistor block and thermisto onto that. A half Ed6/Ed6 Lite extruder. I was hoping to get it running well enough to print a Mk6 extruder mount to fit the entire Lite hot end. Could that be the problem?

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

6 (edited by grob 2015-12-07 02:31:55)

Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

You can measure the resistance - at 25C it should be 100kOhm. If the room temp is a bit lower (cold in Kansas yet?) then the resistance may be a bit higher than that. If it reads a low resistance, it's shorted, if it's very high or "OL", or depends on how you wobble the cable, then there's a broken connection somewhere.

Mostly it's easiest to just have it plugged into the printer, and confirm that a sensible temperature is being read (via the temperature graph or M105). If it reads 0, this means it's open-circuit / broken connection, if it reads really high (off the chart) and triggers MAX TEMP then it may be shorted. If you wobble it, and the temperature graph jumps around then there's a poor connection/break somewhere that needs fixin'.

I can't speak on the compatibility of the v6 heat break with the lite cold-end - someone who has (or distributes? Tim?) both should confirm. Unlikely to affect the printer as you've described, but my instinct is they may not be entirely compatible as the lite needs the PTFE tube lining into the heatbreak, which the v6 heatsink probably won't allow - it won't fit properly, or you'll have extrusion problems when you get it going...

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

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Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

Heartlander wrote:

I'll pull the thermistor and resolder it. Is there a way to test the thermistor?

Thermistor should not be soldered. Please follow the E3D assembly instructions.

Heartlander wrote:

Grob, I did not update the firmware.

Firmware needs to be updated. Please follow the E3D assembly instructions.

Heartlander wrote:

Here is one more thing: the Mk5 extruder I had printed would not accept the Ed6 Lite extruder, it didn't fit. All three of my spare extruder blocks would not fit either.

The groove mount changed between v5 and v6.

Lite6's heatbreak and heatsink are one piece. All E3D heater blocks and nozzles (except Cyclops) are cross-compatible, even back to v5.

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Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

Roger that. I found the instructions on E3D Online and will follow them exactly. thanks.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

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Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

Thanks for the clarifications elmoret, you know these hotends better than nearly anyone!

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

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Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

I wrote E3DOnline to ask but they haven't answered yet... why don't they ship the heater block with the thermistor already installed? It seems like that would save a lot of hassle on the customer's part and probably prevent a  few damaged thermistors and grounded thermistor legs.

It might be a good tip to advise people to do a continuity check with a multimeter to assure you don't have one of the thermistor legs grounded against the heater block.

And, how to test a thermistor with a multimeter (Ohms) and heat gun.

I like their hot ends but it appears to me that the thermistor is the weak part of the design. That is to say, it should either be made easier to install reliably (the little screw thing seems kinda... to me) or be pre-installed.

But, they may have a real good reason why they don't do it that way.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

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Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

I guess they ship in kit form to save cost (assembly is, as you can see, a bit fiddly, and would add a lot to the price), and it is targeted at a handy DIY kind of crowd (which you're definitely a part of, no hiding!) so doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to me.

The instructions they provide for assembly are pretty clear cut for the materials they provide, and the images sure help. They've even gone down to the detail of pointing out which side of the washer you should put against the thermistor... yikes

Thermistors are easier to interface with the electronics, and are relatively cheap for their accuracy and response speed. The tradeoff is they're quite delicate. A thermocouple is increasingly an alternative, E3D sells an interface board for these. These can be installed much more brutally (directly connected to the heater block is fine!) but note the cost increase when the amplifier is accounted for.

The screw-down thermistor installation is an improvement on the previous: which was kapton tape... The screw provides better strain relief, and is easier to assemble consistently compared to the tape method. With the instructions they provide, it should reasonable to achieve a good installation. Check out the close-up photos of the sleeving in the hole etc. I totally get your point about providing them with the sensor pre-installed. I've seen people discussing encapsulating a sensor inside a screw, and then the sensor would only need to be screwed in - but again, not sure this would have been as economical.

Continuity checks are always a great idea. Go for it. Results should be:
* Leg to leg: 100kOhm, or very roughly thereabouts depending on temperature (of course!)
* Leg to block: should be high impedance / not connected

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

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Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

Heartlander wrote:

I wrote E3DOnline to ask but they haven't answered yet... why don't they ship the heater block with the thermistor already installed? It seems like that would save a lot of hassle on the customer's part and probably prevent a  few damaged thermistors and grounded thermistor legs.

It might be a good tip to advise people to do a continuity check with a multimeter to assure you don't have one of the thermistor legs grounded against the heater block.

And, how to test a thermistor with a multimeter (Ohms) and heat gun.

I like their hot ends but it appears to me that the thermistor is the weak part of the design. That is to say, it should either be made easier to install reliably (the little screw thing seems kinda... to me) or be pre-installed.

But, they may have a real good reason why they don't do it that way.

Because time, and because they're selling to makers, the overwhelming majority of which would rather install a thermistor themselves than pay someone else to do it for them.

What part of it is difficult? I've done probably a dozen of them with no shorts. Slide fiberglass over the legs, thermistor into the hole, usually check that the fiberglass followed the thermistor into the hole, insert screw, job done.

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Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

Firmware update for E3d lite:

It sez: "shipped after June 2013 have a Solidoodle-manufactured proprietary Printrboard and use an ATMega 1286-AU."

That's mine. Then it sez: "Printrboard firmware update process
If you have one of the more recent Solidoodles with the Printrboard, follow the instructions [1] for updating the firmware. Ignore the rest of this section except for the table of changes to the Configuration.h file below."

However, when I click the [1] link it takes me to the Solidoodle wiki and "The page update-firmware-here you want to access does not exist."

So, where can I find the instructions to update the Printrboard firmware?

Thanks.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

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Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

Are you certain you have the printer board?  What does it say on the board?  The time frame is approximate, and you are right at the switch over point.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

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Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

I posted a topic with instructions some time ago here if you need firmware instructions.
However, these specific instructions are only for the Printrboard. It is crucial to tell the difference, so here is a visual comparison.

Here is a Printrboard
http://i.imgur.com/i0LxV8t.jpg

Here is a Sang
http://i.imgur.com/lypc38S.jpg

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

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Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

Azerate's post is accurate but the links may be outdated.  I've recently updated the WIKI with new links so just go to the WIKI and follow the instructions for your particular board.  If you're lucky you'll find that your printer came with The Sanguinololu board as it's much easier to flash.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

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Re: Help pls. Installed ED3 Lite, now printer won't heat or move xy or z

Yeah, mine is definitely the Printrboard. Thanks guys!

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10