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SoliForum - 3D Printing Community → Hacks & Mods → Mods... Just how much is too much?
I'm just going by the reports that there is less oozing with the E3D (like I say, I haven't tried it yet, so I don't know for sure). There is certainly a heck of a lot of plastic stored up somewhere inside the stock hot end because it takes forever for a filament change to extrude the new color and nothing but the new color.
The Cura technique probably wouldn't help my worse case cylinders, because they were only 1 layer thick :-).
If by chipmonk effect you are referring to the bead on the outside of your cylinder, I found that Cura eliminates that. When it has a vase, it starts the layer around 1 nozzle diameter inside the vase, then moves it to the outside, so the blob is on the inside instead of the outside. A genius way to eliminate the bead. I rarely use slic3r anymore because I feel I get better prints on cura. But I'm not trying to get this thread off topic.
i've noticed cura prints faster than slic3r
One more reason to convert to cura... Getting there. 
The Cura technique probably wouldn't help my worse case cylinders, because they were only 1 layer thick :-).
In that case, spiral vase mode in slic3r is indeed the way to go.
It's not the money, that's for sure. Here is my view on the E3D, which will probably not be very popular.
I've personally never had any (major) problems with the original hot end, and since I only print ABS and have no interest in printing with other materials (at the moment), I see no reason to change.
I personally don't believe it can improve your printing quality. I know many people swear by it, but to me this is more of a placebo effect. Most of those that went with an E3D, did so because the hype around it, and because they were having so many printing problems they believed that this would be the end all, be all, that will magically make their printer work.
It's not. In fact for most beginners that (the hot end) is NOT the first thing they should change, there are many other things wrong with the printer that need changing, but the print head is not one of them.
Additionally, most of those that did do the upgrade, also changed other things at the same time (like the extruder & carriage), that they have no idea what it was that made their printer work better than before, but they think it was the hot end, because they believe in the hype.
Contrary to the popular belief HERE, the MG Plus hot end is well regarded in the RepRap community as a good workhorse. The quality of the heater block, and the way Solidoodle chose to attach the thermistor are questionable, but the MG design is solid. I've always had good quality prints and the problems I'm currently experiencing are due to other factors (vref or hysteresis issues for my banding, or crap filament for clogging).
In my point of view, the E3D, and other similar all-metal hot ends, are a good upgrade for the advanced users that want to print exotic materials such as nylon, metallic or similar materials that require hotter temps. Most users though, will settle for ABS or PLA, and they really have no need for a E3D/all metal hot end, which introduces its own issues that these very same users are not really prepared to deal with like flashing firmware, re-adjusting the print bed height, Printing a new Extruder, which inevitably leads to printing new carriage for it, which leads to the replacement of the rods, since the stock don't work well with linear bearings, etc, etc.
In fact, for most users I would recommend a "fix" to existing hot end, but only if they're having extrusion problems. Get a new heater block and a cartridge heater. About $6-7 worth of parts, and replace the aluminum heater block and the heater resistor with these new parts, leaving the rest intact. 10 minute fix, no firmware, not new extruder parts, no new calibrations, just plug and play.
In all honesty - I can agree with with this.
I had my stock hotend dialed in pretty well on my SD4 and was getting some very nice looking prints out of it, and had only clogged once in the time I have had this printer (was my own fault for leaving it on & idle for too long) - and I changed colors & materials frequently (ABS to PLA & back again)
When we did the "upgrade" to the E3D, I was actually kind of disappointed in the prints I was getting - it required a LOT more tweaking to get rid of the vref banding - in fact, I had to order an 8825 stepper driver for the extruder to get rid of 99% of it... still have just a tiny bit yet, but it is close. I came very close to yanking the E3D off and putting the stock back on prior to changing the stepper driver...I was that frustrated and disappointed. Now that it is dialed in better, I do like it, but it was frustrating to get to this point.
I have also had to re-figure all of my temp settings for the various colors I use - each one is slightly different... so lots of calibration cubes have been printed... I keep a log for each roll/color of the best temp, filament diameter, extruder steps/mm, and extrusion multiplier to make future color changes a little quicker.
So far I have only run ABS thru the E3D - almost afraid of switching back and forth to the PLA like I used to do...
But, that said, the one really nice thing (for me), as someone has already mentioned, is that the change from one color to the next is very quick with the E3D - I only need to extrude around 50-60mms to get complete color change vs the nearly 200mm I needed with the stock hotend, so a lot less filament wasted when swapping colors.
We had considered going with the E3D lite, but after some discussion about future filament use decided to go with the v6 instead. We would like to try nylon, and some other materials, down the road, so it made sense to go with the hotend capable of doing those things.
98% of my mods were done prior to getting the E3D - and, as I said, I was getting pretty darn good results with the stock hotend. And, just because I could, I left all of the stock wiring in place so I can easily swap back if I ever decide to. I even modded the E3D mount so I could continue using the stock tensioner parts (aluminum tension arm, bearing & stock spring) making a swap back even easier - unscrew one mount, screw the other on - 2 whole screws, plug in some wiring and done (oh yeah, and some firmware changes).
So, as pirvan suggested, unless you are having some major problems with the stock hotend, or really want/need the higher temps, then leave well enough alone. Take the time to get things calibrated correctly and the stock part will perform just fine.
There are other mods that will go a lot further toward improving print quality than changing the hotend - such as the linear bearing carriages...by far the best mod done to our SD4. 2nd best was adding a fan to the X motor (eliminated skipped steps due to the motor overheating), and 3rd would be the bed stabilizer.
For me, the main reason to get an E3D is the elimination of the teflon tube. My stock hot end and a few J-Heads after it eventually failed due to cold end clogs. The teflon tube would deform, or something would go wrong inside to compromise the join between the bottom of the tube and the top of the barrel leading into the heat block. Once a gap starts to open, melted plastic squishes in sideways between them leading to jamming and creating a bulge in the end of the tube.
Also if you make a mistake and overshoot the temp, you don't end up destroying an E3D. I had a couple of nozzles get dropped onto the bed, one time when it never showed a temp over 140C.
For me, the main reason to get an E3D is the elimination of the teflon tube. My stock hot end and a few J-Heads after it eventually failed due to cold end clogs. The teflon tube would deform, or something would go wrong inside to compromise the join between the bottom of the tube and the top of the barrel leading into the heat block. Once a gap starts to open, melted plastic squishes in sideways between them leading to jamming and creating a bulge in the end of the tube.
Also if you make a mistake and overshoot the temp, you don't end up destroying an E3D. I had a couple of nozzles get dropped onto the bed, one time when it never showed a temp over 140C.
+1
My very first post on this forum was a call for help. I had a MOSFET go bad on me and the hotend went way past safe range before I caught it. I ended up melting the PEEK and Teflon to the point they were completely shot. After I swapped to the E3D, some time later, I had that happen again only I didn't have to replace the hotend. The all metal hotend isn't just a benefit for those trying to print with exotics. it is also good to make your printer more robust/bullet proof.
After I swapped to the E3D, some time later, I had that happen again only I didn't have to replace the hotend.
So I can only imagine that when it went bad again, the metal part of the hot end got hot enough to melt other things...
...what did you have to replace ?
There have been a couple of times that I accidentally set the temp to 2230. Firmware will catch that with max temp, but it can still overshoot enough to kill PEEK or run an E3D over 300.
I've experienced MOSFET failure with an e3d on a Sanguinololu. A contact thermometer showed a temperature of 400c at the heater block. The heatsink was pretty much room temperature, so no damage to the extruder. Only needed to replace the thermistor. If It ran too long I can only assume the aluminum would melt with a 40w heater cartridge.
Edit: confirmed (from /r/3dprinting):
On my SD4 I've updated bearing mounts, hangar bearing for the Y-axis, fan for the X-motor, g-code fan and duct for extruder (and added pins for it on the motherboard). I don't know if OctoPi and touchscreen counts as a hack/mod, but I've got that too.
I'm thinking of finally taking the plunge and adding an E3D, because I want to print in nylon (Taulman 618). The stock setup is not hot enough to get the job done! I've read through some threads, and looked at the Wiki; is the Wiki up-to-date, or is there more recent wisdom that I should be aware of? Maybe I should start a separate thread for that question.
For my SD3 I have a few components still stock:
Frame
aluminum bed/heat pad
All Motors are stock
X & Y rods/carriages
Belts & pulleys
stop switches
extruder housing -fan and endstop for E3D adaption.
mobo
I am thinking about/planning to build a totally new, larger printer. Maybe something with a 300mm X 300mm X 300mm print area(Z may be more like 400mm+), but still to be determined. I think it can be done without too much of a problem. One issue is where I would put it. Mine currently is in the garage and I would have to figure out what the footprint would be and where I would put it. I need to look into hollowed linear rods since that would reduce weight and increase strength for the X and Y axis and I would just design new carriages for it. Extruded aluminum channels are an option, but I would be weary of warping and lower tolerances so I'll probably stick with the rods. Aluminum angle bar or something similar could be used for the frame, but there may be a combination of a few other parts that could make it better too.
As for the E3D, I got it because I wanted to print in Nylon. I actually did with the stock setup, but was maxing the temp out and still wasn't getting great layer adhesion so I decided to upgrade for the higher temps. I was also having probably for as long as I recall owning it where the extruder motor would click because it was being over-torqued. I figured it was the motor and no I never checked the voltage. Now that I've upgraded though, it doesn't do it at all so I probably had a clogged nozzle.
I noticed immediately that it took less material to purge the hot end. I was also seeing less uniform extrusion (extruder limitation). There was less stringing too. This isn't placebo. All this would lead me to believe that the melting volume is smaller on the E3D extruder which IMO is better.
2n2r5 wrote:After I swapped to the E3D, some time later, I had that happen again only I didn't have to replace the hotend.
So I can only imagine that when it went bad again, the metal part of the hot end got hot enough to melt other things...
...what did you have to replace ?
I only had to replace the mosfet on the board. I had to clean the E3D but that was easy enough since you can clean them with a torch.
I've experienced MOSFET failure with an e3d on a Sanguinololu. A contact thermometer showed a temperature of 400c at the heater block. The heatsink was pretty much room temperature, so no damage to the extruder. Only needed to replace the thermistor. If It ran too long I can only assume the aluminum would melt with a 40w heater cartridge.
Edit: confirmed (from /r/3dprinting):
That is awesome... I can't imagine seeing that happen. Did that happen from the heating element or from the torch he was using to clean the hotend? :-P
If I upgrade my SD4 with an E3Dv6, what extruder mount do I need to print? Is Lawsy's MK5 still the correct one?
The original Lawsy MK5 is NOT the correct mount but there are several REDO's for the V6. If you don't find one let me know and I can shoot you the file.
If I upgrade my SD4 with an E3Dv6, what extruder mount do I need to print? Is Lawsy's MK5 still the correct one?
You don't really *need* to change the SD4 extruder. I like the all-metal extruder that comes with the SD4 so I just mounted the E3Dv6 into it. All you have to do is remove the top lip from the e3dv6 heat sink and it will slide right up into the hole where the original extruder went and stays put with the set screw. I did it on a lathe, but it can probably be done with a dremel. There is enough smooth surface below the lip to make a good fit even if you booger up the top with the dremel.
You don't really *need* to change the SD4 extruder. I like the all-metal extruder that comes with the SD4 so I just mounted the E3Dv6 into it. All you have to do is remove the top lip from the e3dv6 heat sink and it will slide right up into the hole where the original extruder went and stays put with the set screw. I did it on a lathe, but it can probably be done with a dremel. There is enough smooth surface below the lip to make a good fit even if you booger up the top with the dremel.
Oooh, I like that idea. Everything else is working great, so I hate to booger up what isn't broken! Although I'd been searching, I didn't find this thread until after I posted (my apologies):
http://www.soliforum.com/topic/10188/sd … de-e3d-v6/
I'm wanting to print Taulman 618, so I guess I'll add this mod to my previous list!
Thanks.
As a temporary solution you want this
Or even better this which is more secure.
Please keep in mind that this new extruder would require a new radial bearing....625zz to be exact as well as a new screw and spring for the tensioning. Regardless of the design and effort, it is a spectacular mod.
I'm having difficulty flashing my printrboard in preparation for the E3dv6, but I'll move that conversation over to the other thread.
I'm gonna go for it!
Surprised. I am the first to say this.
SD3 fully stock. Hotend and all.
I have added things, like pieces to mount acrylic enclosure direct to the frame and pieces for holding the extruder cable out of the way, but every stock piece is still attached and functioning. Running for 2 years now. Its a work horse. I vary the speed from 60 - 120 mm/s print depending on quality vs function.
And yes I know, I got lucky.
+1
Got lucky as well...my SD2 is still stock with the exception of the glass bed held on with clips...stock hotend and still running strong!
+1
Got lucky as well...my SD2 is still stock with the exception of the glass bed held on with clips...stock hotend and still running strong!
Says the guy with an OrdBot sitting next to his SD2 
I have owned several SD3's and none of them are in stock form except one that I sold to a local friend. He is still printing with it now for close to 2 years. Of course it helps that I keep giving him free stock parts to fix it 
Ya can't have enough printers...need to maybe think about a 3rd one, but I'm not ready.
Heck, if it wasn't for my SD2, the Ord Bot would never have been built!
SoliForum - 3D Printing Community → Hacks & Mods → Mods... Just how much is too much?
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