1

Topic: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

So it appears I tightened down the short y-belt too hard trying to get rid of backlash:

http://soliforum.com/i/?sknmjA3.jpg

The carriages move very easily by hand with the linear bearings, and I've been printing for well over 100 hours since I added the pillow block and adjustable Y-idlers so it really surprised me when it happened. If anyone is still using the stock belts/pulleys I don't suggest tightening the belt too hard because it will only break and it will not get rid of backlash.


Anyway I did some searching on the forum and I'm going to replace all the pulleys and belts with GT2, here's what I think I need:

1 x 180mm GT2 belt                                     http://www.ebay.com/itm/261645554317?_t … rmvSB=true
2 x 100cm GT2 belt to replace X and Y           http://www.ebay.com/itm/RepRap-GT2-Timi … 20df6f94b4
5 x GT2 20T 5mm bore                                 http://www.ebay.com/itm/261331033474?_t … rmvSB=true
3 x GT2 20T 6mm bore                                 http://www.ebay.com/itm/141303491549?_t … rmvSB=true


I'm also really considering buying an E3D lite6 since it's so much cheaper than the E3D V6 and I want to try out a 0.25mm nozzle for printing small figures. Anyone have experience with this small nozzle? Do they jam easily? Does it print reliably? (thinking of overhangs). Do I need a new power supply for this?


Also I want some fans to replace the stock ones, they are starting to become really loud and annoying.


From my preliminary searching the E3D lite6 looks to be 47 USD (~61 CAD) from the filastruder website, all the pulleys/belts look to be 36 USD (~46.50 CAD). It would be better if someone could suggest a Canadian supplier if possible since the dollar is like 1-ply toilet paper right now.

Please check my sig for my setup and thanks in advance for your help.

SD4 with Lawsy Carriages, Flanged bearings + Y-Drive Pillow Block, Adjustable Y-Idlers, Z-axis Ballscrew. Printing ABS on ceramic tile w/ hairspray.

Future Plans: GT2 Belts/Pulleys, E3D lite6

2

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

0.25mm nozzles do clog more easily, that's not much bigger than dust for instance.

I'm pretty sure I'm the cheapest supplier to Canada. If you find cheaper, I'll match it.

3

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

While you're at it, you may want to consider ditching the smaller loop belt and go for a direct drive set up...here is a link to Claghorn's design:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:593006

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

4

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

+1,000

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

5

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

IronMan wrote:

While you're at it, you may want to consider ditching the smaller loop belt and go for a direct drive set up...here is a link to Claghorn's design:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:593006

I thought about that. I'd need to buy a coupler, a longer shaft, cut the side panel, and have someone print me that mounting bracket and send it to me since I obviously can't print it myself right now. It just seems a lot easier to replace the belt/pulley and its pretty cheap.

I found a website called robotdigg.com that has all the belts/pulleys for 26.55 USD shipped. I'm gonna do some number crunching and see what it will cost going the direct route.

SD4 with Lawsy Carriages, Flanged bearings + Y-Drive Pillow Block, Adjustable Y-Idlers, Z-axis Ballscrew. Printing ABS on ceramic tile w/ hairspray.

Future Plans: GT2 Belts/Pulleys, E3D lite6

6

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

If you change your mind I have a mount and coupler collecting dust smile

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

7 (edited by Ironsight 2015-08-01 00:25:10)

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

AZERATE wrote:

If you change your mind I have a mount and coupler collecting dust smile

Alright I found everything on aliexpress to go direct for 20.60 shipped. (4x GT2 5mm bore, 2x GT2 6mm bore, 200cm of GT2 timing belt, 5 to 6 Plum Coupler, and 400mm of 6mm Shaft). Replacing the stock setup would cost 17. So I think I'd be better off just going the direct route. AZERATE I'll pm you to iron out the details.

elmoret wrote:

0.25mm nozzles do clog more easily, that's not much bigger than dust for instance.
I'm pretty sure I'm the cheapest supplier to Canada. If you find cheaper, I'll match it.

Yup it looks that way. I'm gonna order a lite6 but I'm still debating on whether to bother with the 0.25mm nozzle. I'm still open to more opinions if anyone wants to weigh in.

Edit: And anyone buy a cheap set of new fans that don't sound like a plane taking off?

SD4 with Lawsy Carriages, Flanged bearings + Y-Drive Pillow Block, Adjustable Y-Idlers, Z-axis Ballscrew. Printing ABS on ceramic tile w/ hairspray.

Future Plans: GT2 Belts/Pulleys, E3D lite6

8 (edited by 2n2r5 2015-08-05 23:17:39)

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

elmoret wrote:

0.25mm nozzles do clog more easily, that's not much bigger than dust for instance.
I'm pretty sure I'm the cheapest supplier to Canada. If you find cheaper, I'll match it.

+1 ^



Yup it looks that way. I'm gonna order a lite6 but I'm still debating on whether to bother with the 0.25mm nozzle. I'm still open to more opinions if anyone wants to weigh in.

If you are going to go with a .25 nozzle then it is a must that you have a filament cleaner inline to clean off the dust. It also helps to make sure you store your filament in a sealed bin with a golden rod or desiccant. Just as a warning, a .25 nozzle will make you upgrade other parts. You will notice other effects on your prints at the lower extrusion rates that you wouldn't have otherwise.

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

9

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

Another thing to consider with a .25 nozzle is that filaments like woodfill, carbon fiber, and metalfill are all out of the question. The powder that is in them to make the wood, metal and carbon components are all too large and will clog a .25. Woodfill can even clog a .3 as I found from experience. If you plan to go with exotic filaments then I would use a .4 to .6 nozzle just to avoid the hassle of clogs. Keep in mind that most of these are PLA based so soaking in Acetone in the event of a clog will not work.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

10

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

2n2r5 wrote:

If you are going to go with a .25 nozzle then it is a must that you have a filament cleaner inline to clean off the dust. It also helps to make sure you store your filament in a sealed bin with a golden rod or desiccant. Just as a warning, a .25 nozzle will make you upgrade other parts. You will notice other effects on your prints at the lower extrusion rates that you wouldn't have otherwise.

carl_m1968 wrote:

Another thing to consider with a .25 nozzle is that filaments like woodfill, carbon fiber, and metalfill are all out of the question. The powder that is in them to make the wood, metal and carbon components are all too large and will clog a .25. Woodfill can even clog a .3 as I found from experience. If you plan to go with exotic filaments then I would use a .4 to .6 nozzle just to avoid the hassle of clogs. Keep in mind that most of these are PLA based so soaking in Acetone in the event of a clog will not work.


Okay, since I only print with ABS I'm going to try the 0.3mm nozzle instead. I should also figure out a better setup for the filament. Thanks for your advice.

SD4 with Lawsy Carriages, Flanged bearings + Y-Drive Pillow Block, Adjustable Y-Idlers, Z-axis Ballscrew. Printing ABS on ceramic tile w/ hairspray.

Future Plans: GT2 Belts/Pulleys, E3D lite6

11

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

I would seriously consider the 0.4...I have clogged a 0.35 using ABS albeit with no filament cleaner.  Since switching to a 0.4 I have had no issues...resolution is still great even at .15 or .2mm layer height.

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

12

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

IronMan wrote:

I would seriously consider the 0.4...I have clogged a 0.35 using ABS albeit with no filament cleaner.  Since switching to a 0.4 I have had no issues...resolution is still great even at .15 or .2mm layer height.

Well it comes with the 0.4mm nozzle stock, and the stuff I'm printing needs all the detail it can get at 0.1mm layer heights.

SD4 with Lawsy Carriages, Flanged bearings + Y-Drive Pillow Block, Adjustable Y-Idlers, Z-axis Ballscrew. Printing ABS on ceramic tile w/ hairspray.

Future Plans: GT2 Belts/Pulleys, E3D lite6

13

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

Ironsight wrote:
IronMan wrote:

I would seriously consider the 0.4...I have clogged a 0.35 using ABS albeit with no filament cleaner.  Since switching to a 0.4 I have had no issues...resolution is still great even at .15 or .2mm layer height.

Well it comes with the 0.4mm nozzle stock, and the stuff I'm printing needs all the detail it can get at 0.1mm layer heights.

The output size of a nozzle will not affect your detail. That dimension will really only affact the number of passes it takes to fill in a given space and how thick your perimeters will be. Smaller nozzles will give you thinner and weaker perimeters.

I use a .4 all thr time and printed that owl you see all the time. I did it at .1 and scaled it to 50mm tall. You can see the bark on the branch the feathers on the chest and the feathers in the wings. You can even see the ridges across the toes.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

14

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

I think its best if I just show you a picture of what I'm trying to print.

http://soliforum.com/i/?ljmT73Y.jpg

If you look at the spikes, and also the bottom of the head you'll see what I mean by more detail. And sometimes the nozzle is too big to print the layer of the part directly above a support, if it skips too many layers it will just fail to adhere and fall over. Things like the owl have very big inner profiles so using a 0.3mm nozzle wouldn't matter I agree.

SD4 with Lawsy Carriages, Flanged bearings + Y-Drive Pillow Block, Adjustable Y-Idlers, Z-axis Ballscrew. Printing ABS on ceramic tile w/ hairspray.

Future Plans: GT2 Belts/Pulleys, E3D lite6

15

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

Ironsight wrote:

I think its best if I just show you a picture of what I'm trying to print.

http://soliforum.com/i/?ljmT73Y.jpg

If you look at the spikes, and also the bottom of the head you'll see what I mean by more detail. And sometimes the nozzle is too big to print the layer of the part directly above a support, if it skips too many layers it will just fail to adhere and fall over. Things like the owl have very big inner profiles so using a 0.3mm nozzle wouldn't matter I agree.

How much success have you had with these so far? I know even with a .3 nozzle and god forbid I get a clog I would have very hard time printing those and getting them to come out looking like the render.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

16

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

Putting me on the spot here. lol

http://soliforum.com/i/?p3hYYq4.jpg

Yea, I need a new camera haha.

SD4 with Lawsy Carriages, Flanged bearings + Y-Drive Pillow Block, Adjustable Y-Idlers, Z-axis Ballscrew. Printing ABS on ceramic tile w/ hairspray.

Future Plans: GT2 Belts/Pulleys, E3D lite6

17

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

I have a random question related to the subject. Wouldn't a metal chain like a bicycle be more accurate and reliable than rubber belts? Why don't 3d printers use these?

18

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

DingoThe3rd wrote:

I have a random question related to the subject. Wouldn't a metal chain like a bicycle be more accurate and reliable than rubber belts? Why don't 3d printers use these?

Mass reduction. A metal chain has more inertia thsn a composite belt does. You would need larger and higher torque motors to have the same level of control. Plus you would have added vibration ftom the chain gear meshing.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
Anycubic 4MAX best $225 ever invested.
Voxelabs Proxima SLA. 6 inch 2k Mono LCD.
Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

19

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

Metal chains also have more slop.

20

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

elmoret wrote:

Metal chains also have more slop.

+1 as they wear, they get sloppier. They need to be clean and well lubricated (the way they're used on bicycles in the open is outright abuse).

If you compare this to a timing chain on a car, which is oversized for the power required to minimise wear, has a (usually) adjustable or replacable tensioner/guide, and runs in a sealed case constantly sprayed with engine oil - these last nearly as long as the engine will (200,000km +) without replacement!

I don't think the mass is actually that big a deal, the motors have most of the inertia already, but the slight speed variation (due to the finite segments of chain changing angle as they go in and out of the sprocket) can cause vibration.

I guess ideally you want something with:
* zero slip
* zero stretch
* zero slop
* zero mass
Which really means anything will be a compromise in some form. Spectra fishing line (talk to wardjr!) apparently comes pretty close on all four!

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

21

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

^Yep, but can be a bit tricky to tie the knots.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

22

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

+1 to Grob and wardjr

If you have patience, knot skills (minimal knowledge is fine), and the desire to eliminate belt slop, Spectra is a great alternative! Here is a knot tutorial to help
http://www.rapala.com/content/how-to-li … knots.html

Credit to wardjr for my info smile

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

23 (edited by metaldrgn 2015-08-13 02:45:02)

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

Ironsight wrote:

Putting me on the spot here. lol

http://soliforum.com/i/?p3hYYq4.jpg

Yea, I need a new camera haha.

Your printer should be capable of much higher quality than that. I had some prints I thought were pretty good until I upgraded and fine tuned some settings. Unless the SD4 has extruder gear reduction or you've upgraded to it it wouldn't benefit you to upgrade because extrusion steps will be reduced 40% for all layer heights (fell free to correct me if I'm wrong) and the normal 0.4mm nozzle is lacking as it is.

Was that sliced in Kisslicer? Great program. Do you have the newest version? How well do you know it? Some settings can help clean that up some.

Personally, I hate working with ABS because of the shrinkage issues associated with it. Have you used PLA before? Unless you need the higher temp, I would recommend trying it out.

24

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

metaldrgn wrote:

Your printer should be capable of much higher quality than that. I had some prints I thought were pretty good until I upgraded and fine tuned some settings. Unless the SD4 has extruder gear reduction or you've upgraded to it it wouldn't benefit you to upgrade because extrusion steps will be reduced 40% for all layer heights (fell free to correct me if I'm wrong) and the normal 0.4mm nozzle is lacking as it is.

Was that sliced in Kisslicer? Great program. Do you have the newest version? How well do you know it? Some settings can help clean that up some.

Personally, I hate working with ABS because of the shrinkage issues associated with it. Have you used PLA before? Unless you need the higher temp, I would recommend trying it out.

Before I respond let me update on my situation. I received all the GT2 pulleys/and belts from the robotdigg website in 5 days, costed me 40 USD. Changing everything over was pretty painless, the only "troublesome" thing was taking the linear bearings out of the left x carriage to put the bigger pulley on the motor. The backlash in the y axis wasn't as bad as the stock mxl belts, but definitely still there (fixed with software). Oh and you ppl are brave for using fishing line, I'm definitely not there yet.

I'll look into extruder gear reduction. I have been using kisslicer exclusively since I started 3D printing, currently using beta version 2.21. I'd like to think I know it pretty well but I'm always open to advice on tweaking settings. I've used PLA once and didn't like it, maybe I'll give it another shot. Send me a pm and we can compare kisslicer print settings smile.

SD4 with Lawsy Carriages, Flanged bearings + Y-Drive Pillow Block, Adjustable Y-Idlers, Z-axis Ballscrew. Printing ABS on ceramic tile w/ hairspray.

Future Plans: GT2 Belts/Pulleys, E3D lite6

25 (edited by metaldrgn 2015-08-14 07:08:34)

Re: Broken Pulley -> Time to upgrade (GT2 Pulleys/Belts, E3D lite6)

I forgot to ask, but how big is it? I can't tell from the picture. Also what is a rough diameter of a horn just for perspective?

Is the model from thingiverse/something similar or a personal one?