1 (edited by jenninaj 2012-11-12 01:22:07)

Topic: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

I figured that I should contribute to the community as it's been a great source of information for me. Rather than split all this across multiple posts I figured I'd just cover a number of topics at once - hence the title.

#1: Fan addition.

I took the Lawsy/Ian Johnson design (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:30828) and modded it slightly to allow for the larger neodymium magnets I got from amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001KV … 00_s00_i00). I hooked up a 40mm fan also from amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RD … 00_s00_i01).
Fan Front: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenninaj/8 … hotostream

I tied the cable off to the main loom of the print head
Fan side: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenninaj/8 … hotostream

Power was via a Zalman varible speed controller left over from one of my many computer builds.
Controller: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenninaj/8 … hotostream

I got power directly from where the wall adapter brick is wired to the arduino (I'm sure someone will comment on the sanity of this).
Power connection: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenninaj/8 … hotostream

I've got the whole thing running well now and use it on thin areas, like the antennae on the brain slug (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:33325). I try to persuade myself that it makes a difference but the jury is still out on that one.

#2: Perspex case.

I didn't buy a case for my SD2, as I thought I'd want access from multiple directions. With the hot summer I fired up the ceiling fan and noticed that my bed temperatures fluctuated. So, rather than build a complete case I got some perspex sheeting and ripped it into 12" x 12" squares. I attach the sheets to the printer with some of my handy neodymium magnets from project #1. The result is an enclosure that I can quickly get to any side of the printer but in general use is quieter and doesn't have the temperature fluctuations.
Perspex: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenninaj/8 … hotostream

#3: Glass bed.

After tearing my kapton tape for the zillionth time (mostly by being impatient and spanner-handed) and being frustrated with the indentations from the screw holes in the heated bed showing in my prints, I decided to go with a glass bed. I got the 2.5mm glass from Home Depot and cut it to 5.75" x 5.75" with a glass cutter. I polished the edges to stop me losing a finger (or something more valuable) and clipped it to the bed. I'm really pleased with the results on the prints and it's way easier to get them to release. I cycle the temp from 100 C (printing temp) down to about 60 C and the prints either release on their own or take a little persuasion with a sharp knife (now I don't have to worry about slicing any tape). I would recommend this to any SD2 users out there.
Glass bed: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenninaj/8 … hotostream

#4: Acetone part finishing.

I've played with brushing or pouring acetone over the parts and while this works well to bond the layers it can leave unsightly brush marks and/or a white cloud on the print. I wanted to try acetone vapour and small scale tests in a jam jar (sorry, wifey) were promising. I pondered how to scale up for larger prints but didn't want to go for any powered/heated system as I know how much 'fun' a vapour fire can be...not to mention hot fumes for eyes and lungs.

I finally settled on the following: a clean gallon paint can from Home Depot (just a couple of bucks), some paper towel, the ever-useful neodymium magnets, and some scrap metal.

I put the towel around the inside wall of the paint can and hold it there with the magnets (so easy to position and to replace the towel). The scrap metal was bent at each end to hold it up out of the liquid acetone. To prime the system you simply pour in some acetone, hold the lid on gently, and shake. The towel becomes wet with acetone which means the vapours are more evenly distributed around the entire can. Also, the towel draws more acetone up by capillary action and again this keeps the vapour pressure more even.
Paint Can: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenninaj/8 … hotostream

Because the parts can be soft after the acetone treatment I added another piece of scrap metal as a tray I can put the part on and lift the part in/out with. I used scrap with holes in to help the vapour get up and around the part (the scraps are simply nailing plates that Home Depot sell for connecting timber sections together and are a few cents each).
Tray: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenninaj/8 … hotostream

I typically leave the print in there for 30 mins if the garage is about 72F and longer/shorter time as the temp goes down/up.

Once I'm done with the bath I just tap the lid down and the acetone stays in there without any loss.

You can see some examples of smoothed parts below
Cthulhu before and after: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenninaj/8 … hotostream
Cthulhu red and yellow: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenninaj/8 … hotostream
Metropolis: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenninaj/8 … hotostream
Duck: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jenninaj/8096960984/

Comments and thoughts welcome.

2

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

I like the idea of your part finisher. Very easy and straight to the point.

3

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

Ditto here on the paint can method.  I'm going to try this today.  I really like the simplicity.

Thanks for sharing!
Cheers

4

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

Thanks for this, as a new user and a new 3d printer, I love how concise and to the point this list is. You've inspired me and I will give this stuff a shot.

-Ty

5

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

WhiteStar01 wrote:

Ditto here on the paint can method.  I'm going to try this today.  I really like the simplicity.

Thanks for sharing!
Cheers

Just be careful with those acetone fumes.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.

6

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

Do you use anything to help prints adhere better to the glass bed, like hairspray, or does it "just work"?

7

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

jenninaj wrote:

#4: Acetone part finishing.

Thanks for these tips. I'm new to 3Dprinting and still waiting for my SD2 to arrive and I'm really interested in this acetone finishing. I just have a few questions:
1) Do you need to replace the towels every vapor bath? How long before I need to replace the towel?
2) How long can I store the paint can with acetone and towel if I'm not doing the vapor bath?

Solidoodle 2 Pro Model (New Solidoodle Motherboard and Aluminum Bed)
www.360virtualtourist.com

8

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

I went out and bought a paint can today to try this. Did a little upgrade to the tray to get it in and out more easily. I'll post some pics once I get some good results out of the can.

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9 (edited by Gomisan 2013-10-11 00:13:05)

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

Nice idea for the acetone finishing.

and nice FlickR sets too, looks like you've don't a fair bit with your SD. I just wish I could get my shed as organised as yours!

10

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

I was using a small paint can to dissolve ABS in acetone and put the lid on and left for a while and I hear "BAM! Rattle, rattle, rattle..." from the garage and the lid had blown off the can because so much acetone vapor was generated in the warm garage. So you might want to take that into account :-).

11

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

Whoa, good to keep in mind!

12

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

My first part from the acetone vapor dip. Put it in 3x for 30 minutes then let it dry for about 45m each cycle. It was a part that was made using .3mm layer height. I think some of the sand from the sandpaper got in the grooves because it didn't smooth out all the way. Probably hard to tell from the picture, but it almost has a carbon fiber look. I'm sure the whole process would be faster with heat...but overall not to bad for $7 of parts.

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13

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

muddtt wrote:

My first part from the acetone vapor dip. Put it in 3x for 30 minutes then let it dry for about 45m each cycle. It was a part that was made using .3mm layer height. I think some of the sand from the sandpaper got in the grooves because it didn't smooth out all the way. Probably hard to tell from the picture, but it almost has a carbon fiber look. I'm sure the whole process would be faster with heat...but overall not to bad for $7 of parts.


Hi muddtt,

If you want it seamless .1 layer height would be best and if you wanted to print with a higher layer height I would
go with 120 grit wet sand paper all the way to 320 wet sand paper lightly and, use a duplicolor filler primer with about 3 to 4 coats with 20 min intervals and sand that down wet between each coat.

It will look spot on like an injection molded part.

I have a commercial tweak that I'm developing to quickly smooth the parts.

I'll post pics soon

Powder coated steel enclosure, 1/4" Surface grounded hardened aluminum plate, MK2A Heat bed, .200 Polished fused quartz plate, Machined quick change hot bed mount, E3D hot end, Ramps 1.4, DRV8825 stepper motor drivers

14

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

You can get there with just the acetone if you print at .1.  For simple, boxy things I often print at .3, then sand with 80 grit.  When you brush it off, spread the plastic dust around evenly so it gets into the grooves, then run it through the acetone.   The acetone won't get a smooth finish from .3 layers without a lot of melting, but it does let you stop sanding at a rough grit.

15

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

Thanks for the advice guys. The Solidoodle is still new to me so I'm to impatient to print at 0.1mm tongue Really though, I'm just trying to perfect my 0.3mm skills before I move down to thinner. Look forward to seeing your pics.

16

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

It looks like you have Kapton on the bed, then glass atop that. Right? It seems like the Kapton might tend to insulate the heat from the glass somewhat. I took all the Kapton off my bed before I put the glass on it. Food for thought if you want a little quicker heat up time. Otherwise, good post, nice work all around.

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

17

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

I've got my original Kapton between my glass and bed. I was thinking the same thing as you, but I really like the amber color of the bed tongue

18 (edited by adrian 2013-10-18 07:09:51)

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

Indeed, one of Kapton's "day jobs" is actually to mask off components when doing PCB Rework.... If kapton is used to insulate against 300°C hot-air resoldering, its probably not exactly helping your bed heating at a pokey <100°C.... amber colored or otherwise smile

The polyamide itself still gets quite toasty, which is why it still 'works' when its the *very last* layer.... but it doesn't transfer heat worth a damn....

19

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

I'm with you Mud. I'm puttin the amber back on, insulation be damned!!!!!!! Pretty! Pretty!

Robox printer, HICTOP (Prusa i3 variant) Model 3DP17 printer, ELEK 2.5W laser engraver, AutoDesk 123D Design, Windows 10

20

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

Yeah...I left mine on the print bed with the glass over it; I throw a potholder on top and it usually cranks up to 90 in about 10-12 min.

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

21 (edited by adrian 2013-10-18 23:11:11)

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

IronMan wrote:

Yeah...I left mine on the print bed with the glass over it; I throw a potholder on top and it usually cranks up to 90 in about 10-12 min.

The underside of your bed reaches 90 in 10-12 mins... the topside, not so sure... Remember where the thermistor is located... so thats whats '90', not the top side of the build plate the other side of the kapton. I'd be easily adding 5 minutes to those times to have the glass stablized to that temp (which wont report on the thermistor, as its a veritable mile away from the top of the glass)

22

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

I use a laser temp gun to get a vague idea of my glass temperature. The glass is so opaque with abs glue and hairspray that I figure the reading isn't too far off. I run the bed temp at 115C and when the glass is about 90+ I can usually start my printing.

Once I start for the day it's on for 5 to 12 hrs straight so I figure the temp stays fairly steady.

23

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

While I was buying some stuff from amazon today, I decided to get one of these gadgets:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PA … &psc=1

It is a thermometer you are supposed to put directly on a grill to measure the temp. I figure it ought to work sitting on the printer bed too (though now the heater will have to heat up the thermometer as well as the glass). It should let me get a good idea of how long the temp takes to stabilize. At least it is cheaper than a good IR thermometer.

24

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

http://www.amazon.com/Nubee®-Temperatur … aser+sight

Couple bucks more and you could've gotten this. Think they had a deal a few weeks back that made it a couple bucks cheaper, but its what I'm using and it works great

25 (edited by adrian 2013-10-20 05:11:27)

Re: Fan. Perspex case. Glass Bed. Acetone part finishing.

All these non contact temp readers are IR (including the so called Laser examples suggested) .. And IR is useless for measuring glass or aluminium.. Read up on emissivity.. All they are good for is relative measurements and not absoloute (quantitive vs qualitive)

Its like saying a car can do 200mph cause that's what the top speed on the speedo is...

Anyway, glass transmits IR straight through, and then distorts the returns, and alu scatters it to the point of irrelevance... At best your reading a skewed sample of a scattered return of the alu... Which the thermistor on the bed is already reporting far more accurately smile

Right tool for measuring glass temp is direct contact thermocouple or thermistor... Anything else is an approximation distorted by emissivity.

But feel free to remain unconvinced smile But using an IR/Laser temp probe isn't as easy to operate or accurate as one might think by reading the brochure, and why there is extensive training on interpretation and operation of Thermal Imager Systems wink